Hi everyone.

Most forums I am a member of have a dedicated section for this so I don't you don't mind me just starting this new thread to introduce myself.

My name is Steve and I have been offering a massage service (with 'extras') to women for about 18 months now.
During that time as you would expect, business has not been nearly enough for me to make a living but I stick at it, being self employed anyway in my main occupation (as a designer), means that I can easily juggle the two parts of my life.

I operate in the Yorkshire/Lancashire area.

I first came across you site last year when looking at expanding my online advertising.
Your 'scams to look for' pages were a valuable resource and I thank you for the information, also those relating to the law.

Anyway, my present online advertising consists of an Adult Work account (useless, but free), Some various ads on Vivastreet (had some success and free) and Google Adwords (most success but paid for) and my own website (as a designer it didn't cost me anything except my time) which looks professional but I'm never quite sure what I could do to it to make it more effective.

Anyway, sorry for rambling a bit (it is a bad habit of mine). Any help in promoting myself in this scarce business would be helpful as I believe I am offering something that not many of the men who advertise are offering and certainly I am offering it in a much more professional and discrete manner.

I don't want the members here to think that I am only on the take for information though. I can and will help people out with technical issues they may need resolving and I hope I can fit in and gain some support and friends within the industry as so far, I have operated totally independently.

I am also very open and honest so if anyone has any questions which don't break my strict code of discretion, I am happy to answer them. 

Thanks
Steve

[Title edited by Anika to reflect the content]

Hi and thanks for that.

Yes I am familiarising myself with the limitations of moonfruit.
Their claim to provide an html version for the search engine spiders seems to be a false one.
I have a google analytics account too and no matter what I seem to do, I can not get Google to see the html version even though I can view it in my browser!!!

Yes, as a designer I can produce html websites, but being a lazy sod  I turned my back on html a few years ago so would have to re-familiarise myself with it and no doubt the html apps like Dreamweaver have moved on too.

What I was going to concentrate on for the next few months was to find alternative ways to make people aware of the website without having to rely on search engines. In such a specialised niche with customers thin on the ground, it is not really a good strategy to rely on someone coming upon my website by chance (hence my signing up to Google Adwords to make sure that people using some of my search keywords would see my ad without it having to be referenced by Google's spiders).

The trouble as many people here will know, is that most business expand mainly on word of mouth (it is the best form of advertising) and yet in this business people are not really going to tell all their friends about the 'service' they have had. And with an 80% repeat business, I think I am providing a good level of service to those who have been (or they wouldn't have re-booked) so where, apart from random search engine enquiries can I get the word out about my website?

I am a very experienced marketing/designer who has worked in the advertising sector for many years, but only in traditional media not online so much. With something like Direct Mail, you target your recipients properly to get the best return for your mailing. What I'm wondering is how to target my advertising (free or otherwise) to ensure that I'm not simply blanket advertsing to women, but only to those who would be interested in my services. I know that people do use search engines and that they do help, but I have always tried to get my clients (as a designer) to make sure their potential customers KNEW where they were instead of replying upon them having to search.

Does this make sense?

Sorry about that.

No, at the moment I'm trying to cover the Google aspect by use of Adwords (it is really cheap and only charges you for people who actually are interested enough in the ad to click on the link and visit the page) without having to re-do my website to bring it into html

What I'm trying to figure out at the moment is if there is any other relevant places where I could inform people of my website so that they didn't have to Google it. Many years ago there were a few 'womens' magazines (which I think all failed) which were trying to provide the same sort of mag as Penthouse, but for women, they ran classified ads in the back pages.

My aim when I started was to have the whole 'massageman' business to be self funding, which meant that I would only use free advertising until I had earned enough to start paying for it, then capitalise on that and use the money to fund other ways of promotion. At the moment, i'm just looking for alternatives to search engines. This will most likely be in conjunction with what I can do to improve what I alread have in place (ie: re-building the website in html etc) not to the exclusion of it.

I realise it is probably never going to be a full time occupation for me but that could be good in certain ways because it allows me an amount of freedom to experiment with various avenues to see what I can develop and as I plan all my promotions to be 'results driven' the whole thing has to develop organically in as much as I can only outlay massageman money on promotion that massageman has earned from previous forms of advertising.

Google Adwords more than pays for it's self and therefore I can now start looking for alternatives as well as try to improve on that aspect.

Does that make more sense? I'm not dismissing your suggestion, I thank you for reminding me that it needs addressing too

I don't know anything about computers, html and so on, but nitpicking is very much my thing (and I've seen your site before too). The first thing I would suggest is to get rid of the moving circle things - I have just been looking again and actually had to close the window because they were making me feel sick. I would also change all instances of the word 'Females' to 'Women' (it reads better and sounds far less cold and clinical), and make the text either lighter or larger - I found it hard to read against the dark background, and I'm only 36.

It's difficult to know about advertising - the market for straight male escorts is so small as to be insignificant but a man offering a proper sensual massage sounds much more appealing (there is even a slightly-related thread on PN here, but as discussion of male service providers is not allowed, it wouldn't be possible to make use of it). Are there no specific directories for massage providers? I would definitely push the massage angle rather than the sex one - women will happily pay for a massage (as I have done many times myself), but I imagine very few would be interested in paying for sex (in the way that male punters do) as it is so easy to get for free. Are you on the other free classifieds (Gumtree, HotFrog too)? That seems to be getting popular - I wouldn't use them but I know others do, with varying degrees of success. The vast majority of my business comes from my website, but the majority of the hits come from directories like PN, PLink and so on, and I dont know of there are any male equivalents, again because there isn't really any call for it. I do think you're wasting your time with AW, but as it's free, who cares?

The only other (expensive) route I can think of is the glossies; Cosmo, Company, Glamour, New Woman etc - things that women actually read, ie not Playgirl, or whatever it's current equivalent is (and I doubt there even is one). This would undoubtedly cost a fair bit, but could be worth it - perhaps it would be worth ringing round a few of the ad departments? Do it from a withheld number though, or the f*ckers won't leave you alone .

Welcome to the forum anyway - let us know how you get on!

Hi Amy

Wow, i'm even surprised that two people on here already had seen the website 

Thanks for the constructive criticism though, it is appreciated. I agree that the massage angle is better than the pay for sex angle. I did start off originally advertising as simply an escort and due to no responses what-so-ever my approach had been modified until it got to it's present state which seems to be working on a small scale. The advantage seeming to be that I do attract clients who just want a sensual massage with no hanky panky at all. Which is fine by me really (the customer is always right an all that). So yes, pushing the massage angle is what I've tried to do and strike a balance between those wanting just a massage and those wanting something more, trying to portray the fact that no one is pressured into anything they are uncomfortable with (knowing already that 'TRUST' is most important in any situation where undressing is concerned). The moving circles were supposed to represent the hypnotic rhythm of the massage but now I'm wondering if other people would be put off by them too, one to have a think about there. I will change the wording as you suggest, that's an easy quick fix. But making the typeface bigger... Mmm, that would mean having to make the pages bigger too, which may have to wait a while (or not get done at all if I re-do the whole thing in html).

Yes I did test Gumtree, it generated a lot of spam in my mailbox and nothing much more besides. And it's a pain as you can't just renew your ad in the same way as Vivastreet, you have to start from scratch (unless that has changed recently).
Yes, I also think I am wasting my time with AW, but it's there now and as you say it doesn't cost anything. I did get one phonecall in the first few days, but that guy had obviously not read my profile 

Massage Directories - Yes they do exist but as you would expect they tend to want to keep the 'massage' industry clean from any sexual/sensual undertones and I'm not sure I would be listed. I have tried a few naturist sites, but experience has shown that naturist massage is usually about gay men wanting a massage and although I have nothing against gay men, it is not my preference to provide that service. My other problem with massage sites would be that technically I don't have a qualification. I have been taught by several qualified people but never actually been on a course so I'm not with any of the officially recognised organisations. again though, it is something I will look further into thanks.

And yes, I had thought that Cosmo or New Woman may be a good route. I may purchase some of those mags and see if they run ads like that already. If they do I'd need to do a bit more business before being able to afford it though, unless they run type only classifieds that are relatively inexpensive. But just a few clients repeating business a few times a year would probably pay dividends on that front... And if it worked well, it wouldn't be long before I could have a display ad  .... More research required, thanks for the nudge.

And thanks for the welcome. If there is anything I can help any of you with, please ask

I know I'm pedantic as f*ck, and I'm not trying to be a pain in the arse, but you also badly need a proof reader . I glanced over the pages for as long as the vomit-inducing ripple things would allow and spotted at least 4 mistakes. Font-wise, maybe it just needs changing for a slightly 'rounder' one? The trouble with it being so small is that all the letters look very close together, but maybe I just need one of those big old-lady magnifying things, like Nana in the Royle Family  .

Everytime I log on to update or tweak it, I find another typo... I admit that I'm a crap typist and it doesn't help that moonfruit doesn't have automatic spellcheck. But yes, I should sit and proof read it ALL properly... It's not pedantic at all, it's helping thank you.

If no-one else is going to tell you, I will; the reason I (at least) have seen your website is here  :

OK, I just read that thread with a certain amount of nervousness... pheww... looks like I got away with it 
But now I'm hoping my presence here won't leave LucyMay feeling uncomfortable in any way? not that I know of any reason why it should, but THAT thread was the last thing I expected to find here

The only thing I have to comment on it is that the part which is quoted from my site: "You are paying me for the service I am advertising here, other services may be available in conjunction with those you are paying for. Other services are offered on a client by client basis and are not charged." Is more about: I'll only have sexual intercourse with people I actually fancy (you can't push a piece of string and all that)
Another reason why the 'sensual massage' route is better for me.

EDIT: I would certainly think about going on a massage course - I have booked to do one myself in October and feel that the resulting qualification and what the training will add to my service will be well worth the outlay (and I'm nowt but a bona fide prossie).

I have thought about it in the past and certainly would consider it if I was thinking of making a career out of it. Still, nothing is ruled out thanks again.

EDIT: I would certainly think about going on a massage course - I have booked to do one myself in October and feel that the resulting qualification and what the training will add to my service will be well worth the outlay (and I'm nowt but a bona fide prossie).

I've been thinking the same thing - I'm going on a massage course in Sept. Curious to see how many of the others on my course will also be doing it so's to have something useful to add to their website.

Filament Magazine might be worth a go. It's new but has attracted quite a bit of attention. The smallest ad they do is a quarter page so it might be outside your budget, but I assume it's a lot cheaper than the established glossies.

Yes, at over ?700 it isn't really a possibility at the moment, but the mag sounds like it could be good. I'll certainly bookmark the site and watch the mags progress and see if I can more data on how well it performs thanks.
I've been reading the boards on the Cosmo website (some crazies on there!!!!), but there's no rate card for advertising in the mag. Will buy a copy and have a browse.

It's kind of cheesy, but have you tried ads in newsagents and stuff like that? I think there is a potential market of women who wouldn't think of looking for services but might be interested if you could get across the impression that you're a nice guy who'll give them an especially nice massage for a rather reasonable price.

Hahaha - Or putting cards in telephone boxes (yes I know that's illegal and I wouldn't do that), sorry for flippance there.
My problem with that idea is the level of anonymity which I could maintain, which is always going to be a problem of striking a balance between being accessable and yet being as discrete as possible. Having said that, I have in the past left my business card on various boards in shops where there was no requirement to ask a member of staff first.

In that vein, if you have the patience you could look for forums populated mostly by women that would allow you to advertise. Also, if you can find a UK-based site for female friendly erotica or porn that would accept a banner ad, that could be good. With this kind of online approach I'd still advise you to get on with sorting out your site so that people who vaguely remember your ad can find you if they become interested in future. At the moment, someone can search for 'massageman' and it's no use to you at all.

Oh yes I have plenty of patience and finding forums is definitely on my list of thing to do.
With regards to my website, late last night I was considering just producing an html portal/welcome page which could have all the keywords and meta-data embedded which would then just take people to my already completed site. I know it's not ideal and probably wouldn't maximise the search engine result potential but it would be a quick fix (or would that just be botch up?) and would at least get the spiders indexing one relevant page.

Actually, I'd consider coming up with a more distinctive but still memorable name. There are already several massageman and massage-man domains registered, as well as loads of random guys all over the world using massageman as a handle.

I know what you mean, when I made my mind up to "got for it" and start up this little side line, I did kind of just rush into it a bit.
Only after I'd set it all up did I actually do any searching around and found that massageman was already a popular name (silly me).