Hope this is the right place to post- it is more of a political question than a sex work question.

There is much in the media about the criminalisation of clients after Jeremy Corbyn has come out and said he is in favour of decriminalising sex work as well as the Select committee in Parliament about the general issue of prostitution laws last week.

As far as I can see the general notion from sex workers is that we want the law changing so we can work together for safety and that criminalising clients is a BAD thing for many reasons. And that is how I feel.

However, there is always someone on the End Demand side of the argument that talks about how they have worked with women who are 'survivors' and a common line is that sex workers who can speak out are privileged and aren't the same as those who are in the street, living chaotic lives, are drug addicted or who are forced or coerced in some way who absolutely think that criminalising clients is the way to go.

I've been trying to work out whether I have been missing something and if my experience of sex work is so far removed from some women's that I just can't see how criminalising sex work or the Nordic model will help those in dire situations.

I have just read a blog (I don't think I am allowed to link or give names, but if I can I will) from a woman who works at a brothel and has done since she was 14 (now aged 20) who writes about her experiences as rape and how all clients are awful for her and constantly hurt and abuse her.  I have no idea if it is genuine, but there are other cases of women who have been in sex work and are fiercely in favour of the Nordic model. There have been accusations that some are fake or they have been paid to be a victim and help front prohibition campaigns, but surely not all of them?

I really can't work out how a change in law can help those women- if they couldn't escape or report their abusers to the police with current laws, how would new laws make it easier?

Is anyone here in favour of the Nordic Model or can someone give me a good argument why the Nordic law should be introduced or just any general answer to what I have written about above?!

My take is that all the bad things that happen to women in bad situations can and should be dealt with through other legislation, be it human trafficking, slavery, forced to work by pimps, control, physical violence, intimidation etc. etc. All those factors are separate to two consenting adults having a business transaction that involves sex. Moreover, decrim would help because we could legally work together in 'brothels' for our own safety.

I think it's impossible to get a truly representative sample of prostitutes. Some people rely on statistics from government entities like law enforcement, or things like women's shelters. They will give a very skewed sample. Meanwhile, this forum is a skewed sample of primarily independent indoor sex workers.

I think the Nordic model is utterly fucking stupid because my clients are doing nothing wrong.

I am not at ALL impressed with the way things are in Germany. I am not interested in the government intervening. Sort out issues of poverty, addiction, and abusive relationships and that will sort out the vulnerable prostitutes.

When I see sex work activists fighting against stigma, I sort of roll my eyes. If this job carried no stigma - if it were truly just another job - it would pay as well as any other unskilled labour. Look how much the people who bath and feed the elderly are paid. That would be us if there were no stigma.

Yes, I agree, I think the wide ranges of experiences sex workers have is massive. It's like comparing working in a sweat shop in India to senior couturier at Chanel.

 I have a theory that the most under represented sex workers are married mothers who have moved from swinging into occasional paid for encounters to help with the bills. These women have no interest or knowledge of forums or Twitter nor want to get involved with other sex workers nor activism and just go about their business privately and without fuss. They probably don't even see themselves as sex workers.

Your last paragraph interests me, I shall ponder on it more!

Agree totally about Germany- The super brothels seem horrible and I also disagree with compulsory health checks and registration/licencing.

Thanks for other answers too!

Quote from: Fabulassie on 07 March 2016, 10:51:48 pm

When I see sex work activists fighting against stigma, I sort of roll my eyes. If this job carried no stigma - if it were truly just another job - it would pay as well as any other unskilled labour. Look how much the people who bath and feed the elderly are paid. That would be us if there were no stigma.

I strongly agree with this.

Decrim itself would be nice, though. I dislike the risk of eviction if I were to start taking incalls under Nordic model here. :/

I agree with Fabulassie's paragraph. Look at sex surrogates (both male and female), they get payed very little for having sex with people,  it's done under psychiatric supervision and is much less stigmatized than prostitution. For most surrogates it's a part time job they do for fun as no surrogate can make a living doing it full time.

This would be us without the stigma.

http://  sexandcensorship.org/2016/03/caroline-flints-anti-sex-worker-bigotry/

Hopefully I can post this, but an organisation is asking everyone to tweet against Caroline Flint and her outrageous remarks regarding the industry we work in.

I disagree with a lot of you.  I've had a lot of bad experiences as an escort, and was almost trafficked by a former boyfriend.  I don't believe this should be a career for most people. I don't believe in legalization. The truth is that when it comes to the sex industry, or anything really,  the people who experienced the most trauma are the ones who have the most trouble speaking up.

What do you think would have helped you the most? 

So, bitch as I do about the risk and stigma, my ability to tolerate those factors means I make more money than I would doing any other job for which I am qualified.

I agree, I've relatives who spend long hours looking after mentally ill/disabled and elderly people,  I imagine its very stressful dealing with those type of people for long periods of time.


Also only my own experience but I've had way more bad things happen in personal relationships than I have whilst escorting.

I recently heard on womans hour a lady working in New Zealand under the new decrim laws. She was disapoited the persecution / dangerous punters by the police had been replaced with lower wages, less working rights / choice and a group of 'business pimps' as she put it.

All sounds rather disheartening in terms of campaigning.