SAAFE forum
Adverts => Spamming in the Lion's Den => Topic started by: ninasouthampton on 21 February 2013, 07:12:30 pm
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We are a new massage establishment opening very soon in a brand new sea view apartment in Southampton (just 90 minutes from London). We are run by an all girl team.
We are looking for an attractive, well presented, English speaking masseuse to join our team on part or full time basis.
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What, the area that got raided not that long ago?
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Why would the lady have to be attractive if is just massage?
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Dear ladyofthemansion,
I have indicated in the subject of my post that it is sensual massage. I would quite agree with you otherwise. Having worked several years as a sensual masseuse, it is clearly an advantage to be attractive or at the very least consider oneself as attractive and be confident how one looks in order to gain regular custom. I would put myself in the latter category (when I have my makeup on and in adequately low level lighting!) If you take some time to look at the website too, the nature of the massages is obvious.
Dear RR,
West Quay is a really lovely area on the harbour and I am not aware of any raids??? Are you familiar with Southampton? For arguments sake, even if there were, our business would not be targeted.
Nina
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For arguments sake, even if there were, our business would not be targeted.
I wouldn't be so cocky sure myself.
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Dear RR,
West Quay is a really lovely area on the harbour and I am not aware of any raids??? Are you familiar with Southampton? For arguments sake, even if there were, our business would not be targeted.
Really? Ocean Village was only 3 months ago.
And a 'massage parlour' won't be the target? Really, I wonder if thats what Fellowberrys thought too when they were raided in summer 2012.
I don't need to be familiar with Southampton; I do however prefer to be familiar with UK law and whilst I was born at night, it certainly wasn't last night. A quick look of your website and its certainly like no massage I've ever had. Any well heeled hooker knows they're an incall rate - or semi intelligent CID... Incidentally, all I did was google 'Southampton brothel raids'.
Or as you state yourself, 'the nature... is obvious'.
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Hi Holly, RR,
One can never be completely sure, you are right. But I am pretty sure because I've done my homework and I have the experience behind me. I know full well about Ocean Village and EXACTLY why it went down. It is necessary to be confident and self-assured when you invest time and money in to a business... otherwise I wouldn't be setting this up. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and it's your prerogative if you feel I've stepped over it. I've invested a lot of my hard earned money as a masseuse in to the apartment, massage beds, decor, furniture, lighting, music system, etc. and location is one thing I did a lot of research about. RR, there is a distinct difference between Ocean Village's set up and ours but the most salient is that we will not be offering escort services (FACT) and our website does NOT suggest otherwise.
Nina
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..... there is a distinct difference between Ocean Village's set up and ours but the most salient is that we will not be offering escort services (FACT) and our website does NOT suggest otherwise.
Nina
I really would not assume that just because you don't offer escort services you won't be targetted. I agree with HollyC you really are not coming accross well, your manner so far is very offputting and pompous and would I think alienate a lot of girls from contacting you.
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Hello Nameless,
I'm sorry you feel that way (really) but I do feel that's a bit judgemental. I believe I have good manners and I firmly believe what goes around comes around so I try my best to be good and fair to people in my life and also to those who are not. And due to strict parental upbringing in my formative years, I am incapable of lying... perhaps that's why I'm squinty! All I've tried to do is give honest replies and I will readily accept any criticism and try to learn from it. I am sure everybody on this forum knows there are risks attached to massage work and escort work including raids. I have learnt that putting an ad up in the spamming den is a pretty redundant exercise so I have amended my post. I will stick to word of mouth. I'm still happy to contribute to the forum and hope I can do in some meaningful way... because I appreciate what it is for now.
Nina
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Hello Nameless,
I'm sorry you feel that way (really) but I do feel that's a bit judgemental. I believe I have good manners and I firmly believe what goes around comes around so I try my best to be good and fair to people in my life and also to those who are not. Nina
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We all form judgements continually but judgmental.....no I was just being honest (in a very polite way I may add) as you say you were. Honesty is a two way street after all.
But I'm bowing out of this thread as this is all getting a bit pointless.
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I just asked someone who is a copper (I know, I know) to look at the site
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After he finished talking about the slightly odd area around where the lady's arm meets her bust...
He then said that as a man and also as a law enforcer, he would see the site as potentially offering sexual massages as well as sensual ones.
Maybe if you wish to ensure other men and indeed law enforcers do not view it as he does, you need to change a few things on your site? It will not stop an eye being kept on you, but it will help you attract the right sort of customers surely?
I appreciate that I know NOTHING of massage, nor actually anything about escorting really, but just a word to the wise, based on what a man perceived your site to be.
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Thanks Holly. Points noted gratefully and I will be getting the site amended. We do not/will not offer sexual services and I am duty bound to make sure customers do not expect extras or waste police time in what would be a pointless raid!
Nameless, I completely agree with you and hope we cross paths on the forum again :)
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He then said that as a man and also as a law enforcer, he would see the site as potentially offering sexual massages as well as sensual ones.
I agree, it looks like a semi high-class escort business posing as a "tantric massage" place to avoid problems. I would definately tone it down (the website) and give it a more "holistic look/approach" in order to gain some "massage credibility".
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Nina, if your massages include a sexual service such as hand relief, you are running a brothel and just as liable to prosecution for this as the people running the cathouse up the road (or one of us sharing her flat, and so on).
If you are only offering straightforward massage (such I would go for at a spa), then I would ask a: in what way is it 'sensual' (ie. constituting a sexual service in the eyes of the law) and b: why are you advertising on a sex workers forum?
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Amy, thank you for your post.
It's my strict intention to remain within the boundaries of the law so in that respect I would be grateful for your further advice.
It's not a straight forward massage, it's a sensual one but there is no hand relief, in fact no touching of the genitals (I know it's something I need to make clear on the website). There is a market for this, I know from my own experience in London. There is body to body contact though. In the eyes of the law, does that constitute prostitution? And if it does, then would I be within the boundary of the law if only one masseuse stayed and conducted massages on the premises?
With reference to your last question, it was a mistake to be advertising on a sex workers forum, a stupid error, agreed.
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I am not sure if B2B is classed as prositution but if it is then no you would not be within the guidlines of the Law if one person used each property as you will still be controlling for gain. I also think you may have to worry about tantric as well as that is purposely to aid sexual arousal and enjoyment so may well come under the same heading although not sure and with Tantric massage guys will expect a happy ending
The only way it could work is if that one person advertised herself, not on your site, if she took all her own bookings and if you did not get any money from it.
If you are offering B2b guys are also going to expect a happy ending. After all you cannot expect them to think it is not on offer when they have a completely naked woman rubbing their naked body up and down on them. Also there is bound to be genital contact during this so I am not sure if it would be classed as sexual services or not as I dont do massage
I do however think you should have found all of this out before trying to employ girls. A good boss always ensures they know the risks to themselves and their staff before starting to employ anyone
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... :FF
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Thanks Dani,
I don't think the hand relief that might be expected is going to be an issue... when I practised as a sensual masseuse in London, I made very clear to the client at the time of booking that no sex, no oral, no hand relief was on offer (and also when they arrived). I had no difficult customers except for one or two that I was able to handle.
The grey area is whether it is considered prostitution in the eyes of the law... where is that fine line when a sensual massage is considered sexual. You also highlight the risk to the masseuse, not only in the legitimatacy but the threat from customers expecting more... I can't be in the massage room with them. I also can't see if masseuses are giving extras without my knowledge... so I too put myself at risk.
So I'm not hiring. I'll be doing the massages as an independent. Website will of course need a complete overhaul.
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The grey area is whether it is considered prostitution in the eyes of the law... where is that fine line when a sensual massage is considered sexual.
With the best will in the world Nina, the only person who apparently believes there is any difference is you, no one else and certainly not the law. It might sound better to you (just as some prostitutes prefer to be called 'escorts') but it doesn't alter the facts; sex does not begin and end with penetration or even genital contact as has been explained above, and the legal definition (which I can't link to because I'm away for the weekend and on my phone) basically requires an act to be something that a reasonable person would consider to serve as means for somebody to get their rocks off.
To state that a near naked oily woman wriggling about on a near naked man is not sexual is beyond ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure you know that as well as we do - you only seem to be here to look for loopholes that will help you get away with it. Provided you work alone you're fine just as the rest of us are, but the minute you have others on the premises it's brothel whether you like it or not, and trying to find clever wording for your marketing doesn't alter the facts any more than putting a Braeburn sticker on a orange makes it an apple.
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Thanks for the very helpful response Amy.
I still maintain that the website was not a front for anything other than sensual massage and perhaps either of the two people who responded to the ad will back me up on this, on this thread... I clearly responded with what the job entailed. The website has been changed. I will be working alone and I admit to being a bit naive about what I thought what constitutes prostitution. You are very right indeed and thank you for your help in preventing me make a very big mistake.
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So if I wouldn't even have to give the guy a wank why would I have to be attractive. Surely it would make more sense to have an Anne Widdecombe lookalike then there's no danger of the men wanting touched down there.
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I think I responded to you earlier on that. In my opinion, your comment is completely valid if we were talking about a therapeutic massage which we are not. I have heard you and respect your opinion and even agree with it but men prefer sensual massages from attractive women... FACT. I fear this might become circular diatribe and it is now not salient anyway because I'm not hiring.
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I think I responded to you earlier on that. In my opinion, your comment is completely valid if we were talking about a therapeutic massage which we are not. I have heard you and respect your opinion and even agree with it but men prefer sensual massages from attractive women... FACT. I fear this might become circular diatribe and it is now not salient anyway because I'm not hiring.
So if not a "therapeutic" massage, it's most definitely sexual.
And what one man thinks is "attractive" another will find "unattractive". Men like their bits played with by someone THEY are attracted to. Whether that's skinny, fat, pretty, ugly, white, black, tall, short, blonde, brunette, young, old....all in the eye of the beholder.
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Hi Cat, yes I conceded your first point to Amy in her last post.
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So if I wouldn't even have to give the guy a wank why would I have to be attractive. Surely it would make more sense to have an Anne Widdecombe lookalike then there's no danger of the men wanting touched down there.
I love you.
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Wait...An erotic massage place that advertises tantric massage/sensual massage/nuru + a website plastered with semi-naked girls (no massage certification), champan bottles and there's no happy ending of any sorts? If that business works out for you please let us know as it would be a first in our contemporary sex industry. And remember that all over the south Hampton area you have a lot of attractive massage therapists with plenty of certifications on their walls charging a quarter of your rates for a massage so if you're not providing any sexual service of any sorts you're going to have to be very good at ... Something else (?)
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Just out of interest if your not an escort and this massage parlour is not a brothel and offers no sexual services.. Why are you advertising on a sex worker website? ::)
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So you're prepared to employ others but haven't made yourself aware of the relevant legislation - so, therefore, not really researched what you're doing?
Thats comforting.
I date women, not men, in my private life. If I had an attractive woman all over my near naked body covered in oil (besides the fact I'd retch at the soft porno cliche) I'd expect some form of sexual relief. If I'm thinking that, a red blooded hetero-male is going to be thinking the same. If I go for a massage thats above board, it isn't to a 'luxury' apartment where I can have champagne with a pretty girl.
You might have a market for what you claim you offer in London - London is a big city. Southampton isn't. Still doesn't explain why, as Roxy said, you are advertising on a sex worker forum.
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Nina, if your massages include a sexual service such as hand relief, you are running a brothel and just as liable to prosecution for this as the people running the cathouse up the road (or one of us sharing her flat, and so on).
If you are only offering straightforward massage (such I would go for at a spa), then I would ask a: in what way is it 'sensual' (ie. constituting a sexual service in the eyes of the law) and b: why are you advertising on a sex workers forum?
I see where your coming from. No word of a lie but I would sneak in extra's as that's what I do give a sex service. It's a bit like advertizing for a cleaning job on a porn forum lol.
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Still doesn't explain why, as Roxy said, you are advertising on a sex worker forum.
Actually it was me who first asked that, way back when, and the OP has already addressed it if anybody wants to read back a bit. All of the same points here are just getting repeated over and over again now and it's starting to look more like an excuse to take pot shots at an easy target rather than any sort of discussion, especially since the OP has made it very clear that she has taken advice on board and changed her plans.
If nobody has anything new to add, leave it be, please. It's getting like a stuck record and it's not only boring but it's helping no-one - there are far more worthwhile threads to post in.