SAAFE forum
Adverts => Spamming in the Lion's Den => Topic started by: escortsafe on 02 January 2011, 06:40:51 pm
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Hi Everyone,
We are going to launch a telephone service aimed at escorts very soon and could do with a bit of market info....
Basically the services gives the escort a telephone number... either an 07090 number or a local 01/02 area code
When someone calls the advertised number, the escort will always get the callers number even witheld ones. Also the escort can block the caller from calling again, the ability to record the calls is also available.
Do you think there's a market for this ? Can you ask around ?
The service is going to be run from escortsafe.co.uk, If the escort takes an 07090 number then the service is free and requires no details. Otherwise if an 01/02 are code is used, calls will cost the escorts 10p/minute
What do you think ? Am I wasting my time ???
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For those who don't know, '070' prefixed numbers indicate a calling service where the incoming call can be diverted to another number for a fee paid as a premium rate charged to the caller - I have never heard of them being able to ''unwithhold' withhelds, but since a: people ringing from withheld numbers are 99% timewasters which most of us don't care about answering anyway and b: many of us who are that bothered have Android phones or similar, which can block withhelds by themselves it would appear to be irrelevant. Having a third party recording people's calls without their knowledge is in my view a gross invasion of privacy, but that is up to each individual to consider.
These numbers are charged at a higher rate than normal mobiles and punters are well aware of this and do not phone them - even people who do not know the exact ins and outs would be extremely suspicious of an 'odd' looking phone number whatever it was and are likely to assume whoever using that number is a fake. We have had directories (remember EscortLocator, anybody?) steal our details before and assign us these numbers in the hope of creaming a bit off the call fees when somebody rang the unsuspecting lady, until they were spotted. And I can see ladies being really keen to pay for the privilege of answering their own phone (surely 01 or 02 are landline numbers anyway?)
I don't understand what your 'service' actually consists of? We can all blacklist phone numbers now and most of us don't answer withhelds anyway; if we do not wish to speak to a caller more than once we just store their number with an appropriate prefix/suffix and don't answer it again. Plus, no lady I can think of would be prepared to give up a work number she has been using maybe for years, and have all the associated hassle of changing all her ads, particuarly for a dodgy-looking replacement that nobody will ring. How is this related to safety?
It's your time and your money, but I would personally be heading for the drawing board and starting work on my Plan B.
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What Amy said.
Another drawback is that calls to 070 stand out on bills as unusual and expensive. Now, while that may be apt for some services, it's not exactly discreet.
And I can't see ladies being really keen to pay for the privilege of answering their own phone (surely 01 or 02 are landline numbers anyway?)
They are, but it's down to how the money the caller is charged is split.
As you say, callers to 070 get charged a fortune and so a nice chunk (it varies, but you can guess a ball park figure for 07090!) gets given to those in the middle. This can be significantly more than the costs of doing something like cheaply diverting the call to a landline somewhere. Ker-ching! (If you wanted to receive this on a mobile, I'd expect it to cost you, because mobile companies don't let you call their captives for cheap.) When someone calls a landline number, those in the middle get squat unless you are talking mega-minute totals, and so they start looking for the person at the destination to pay.
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Thanks for the messages.......
The basic point of the service is that you won't get witheld calls... You'll get the phone number of every caller every time, and if he's a wierdo/time waster you can just bar his number by pressing the # key. He won't be able to call you ever again from that phone
In terms of the 070 numbers, from May 2012 these will be charged at a standard mobile rates. The other option is to provide local area codes. So you could have a memorable Leeds, Manchester, Bradford number in your advert which would attract more business in those areas, rather than a mobile number
The main point is to stop timewasters and provide a bit more safety.....
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Hi Amy,
I've set up an example, If you call
017******** Your local area code
This goes straight to your mobile, and you'll get the phone number of every caller.
This number advertised in your local rags would get a lot more calls than a mobile number !
[Number censored - this is a public board and you do not get to decide who to practice on]
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Many of us can already download apps which bar withheld and specific numbers chosen by the owner, or have phone handsets with the facility to block them - the rest of us just don't answer them so it's not tremendously problematic and more an annoyance. On the contrary, unless your proposed service would actually alert us to the fact the caller had attempted to withhold their number I could see it being extremely counterproductive as this is one of the easiest ways to spot a timewaster - they can sound extremely plausible.
Most of us don't really care whether an unwanted caller can or can't physically ring us - we just don't answer (and in the rare cases of very persistant callers we would contact our network providers and if necessary the police). Punters are perfectly used to using mobile numbers and most of us make our location extremely clear in our advertising - landline numbers pertaining to particular geographical areas have not been commonplace in the industry since before people had mobiles, and that was also pre-internet when punters didn't have the huge amount of access to different ladies' details - most of my clients travel for an hour minimum to visit me and so a local number wouldn't make a blind bit of difference and I cannot imagine they will be making a comeback any time soon.
I still don't see any way in which any of this relates to safety? Could you please explain very specifically how you think this service will make us safer?
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Hi Amy,
I've set up an example, If you call
017******** Your local area code
This goes straight to your mobile, and you'll get the phone number of every caller.
This number advertised in your local rags would get a lot more calls than a mobile number !
Firstly, my 'local rag' does not take advertisements from prostitutes, and secondly even if it did I've personally moved on a bit from the days of spending whole mornings on the phone describing myself, my fees and my services because I have a comprehensive website which already does all that for me, and any mainstream media is a vast source of timewasting calls in itself because it is not targeted specifically at punters.
If you are claiming that I would get more work (assuming I needed or wanted it) by pretending I am using a landline as my work number (rather than just more calls, which is not the same thing, especially when answering those calls would cost me money) than using the mobile number I have had for years, please substantiate your assertion with some solid research and facts. Plus, if you had actually looked at my website you would see that I prefer initial contact to be made by email as I do not often answer my phone, so having the bloody thing ringing non-stop all day (assuming your claim is correct) would be extremely irritating and not helpful in the slightest.
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Hi Amy,
I'll try to set out what I think are the main plus points:
1. You probably get hundreds of calls per month from witheld numbers. They can't all be timewasters, jusy guys who withold their telephone numbers by default, So your missing out on genuine business.
2. Any idiot's wasting your time, isn't going to bother you again as there calling you having a wXXk while there wife's gone to Tesco's, when you read their telephone out.
3. Don't you get sick of saying "please call back without witholding your number"
4. You have the option of recording the calls and having these sent to your email address. Wouldn't it make you feel a little bit safer knowing if something did go wrong with this punter, you'd have a recording of the booking ? If something bad did happen I'm sure you phone would disappear.
5. You probably have a "work" phone, using our service it wouldn't matter if you lost it. Your number could be rediverted to anywhere.
6. As for the local area numbers verus your mobile, You have no idea which advertisements are working for you as your advertising your mobile number everywhere. Using our service you could place a different local number in each advert, this means it would be easy to see where you business is coming from i.e Local paper, Adultwork, punternet
Hey if it's not something that would be of help, I'll stick to my day job ! Just a good idea... i thought
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Amy,
I have viewed your website. Why have you xxxxxx my example ?
I've clearly upset you so I'll move on, I'm sorry for believeing that you may want more business or not. You clearly know what's best for you, I'd just like to see what other ladies think....
P.s. You don't have to moderate my replies ! Were not in China
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Hi Amy,
I'll try to set out what I think are the main plus points:
1. You probably get hundreds of calls per month from witheld numbers. They can't all be timewasters, jusy guys who withold their telephone numbers by default, So your missing out on genuine business.
Very few actually, since my site clearly states that I don't answer them. I've had one today and that's the first one in a week or so. I find it extremely hard to believe that somebody would have no opportunity ever to ring me from a non-withheld number, and since I prefer email anyway the effect on my business is negligable at best.
2. Any idiot's wasting your time, isn't going to bother you again as there calling you having a wXXk while there wife's gone to Tesco's, when you read their telephone out.
Again, I very rarely get this and in the event I do I just hang up and store the number under 'Wanker#5', or whatever. If he had rung from a withheld I wouldn't have answered anyway, so problem solved.
3. Don't you get sick of saying "please call back without witholding your number"
Nope, because as stated, I don't get many and if I do I don't answer them. I occasionally used to if I wasn't doing anything much, and I think I have had one person ring back - in eight years. I do believe thats a variable I can live with.
4. You have the option of recording the calls and having these sent to your email address. Wouldn't it make you feel a little bit safer knowing if something did go wrong with this punter, you'd have a recording of the booking ? If something bad did happen I'm sure you phone would disappear.
No, not in the slightest. I have security measures in place already, as do most other ladies and I would never, ever condone the recording of private phone calls without the caller being told - who records this information, where is it stored and who has access to it? This is completely unacceptable, and deeply unethical.
5. You probably have a "work" phone, using our service it wouldn't matter if you lost it. Your number could be rediverted to anywhere.
I have my numbers backed up, and it would not take long to get a new phone and have my old number ported across, although I think this is the only salient point you have made thus far, so fair play on that at least.
6. As for the local area numbers verus your mobile, You have no idea which advertisements are working for you as your advertising your mobile number everywhere. Using our service you could place a different local number in each advert, this means it would be easy to see where you business is coming from i.e Local paper, Adultwork, punternet
Hey if it's not something that would be of help, I'll stick to my day job ! Just a good idea... i thought
My website control panel shows me where my traffic is coming from, and I don't show a phone number on Adultwork unless I'm working away (in which case it is a different one which is never switched on, and callers are directed back to the AW email system). I am not particularly interested in where most callers found my number provided they have followed a link to and read my site, especially since I only pay for one ad and that is Punternet. I do not advertise my number anywhere without provision for a website link.
You asked for feedback and you got it - I doubt it would actually do any harm but your industry knowledge seems to be non-existant and I know I wouldn't even think about using it. I daresay there may be other ladies along later who can put their two-pennorth in as well, but I can't honestly see you getting many takers - you're not the only person who thinks that prostitutes are a licence to print money and you won't be the last, but honestly, most of us are perfectly capable of managing our phone calls by ourselves.
Your hijacking of my mobile number to make a point was done without my permission, and whilst I do not answer the phone after eight pm, I do not want the world and his dog deciding to have a go and see if it works.
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I wasn't thinking that at all......
I did think that witheld calls / timewasters were a problem
As for recording calls, I'm sure the hundreds of working girls attacked each year think otherwise.
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I wasn't thinking that at all......
I did think that witheld calls / timewasters were a problem
They are, but one that is easily dealt with by blocking/not answering the WHs and proper management of TW numbers. We know how to do this.
As for recording calls, I'm sure the hundreds of working girls attacked each year think otherwise.
I doubt it - considering most punters (and certainly anybody who was up to no good) would have a separate unregistered/anonymous punting phone which would quickly be binned in the event of wrongdoing, what earthly difference would it make - a call recorded without the other party's knowledge and consent would not even be admissable as evidence in court because this would be a breach of the Data Protection Act. Since you have no way of knowing what any of us think or not, I will thank you to keep your scaremongering and pointless speculation to yourself.
I think we're all more interested in safety strategies which are practical and have a provable effect, not to mention changes to the prostitution laws which would make us all safer. This is neither.
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As for recording calls, I'm sure the hundreds of working girls attacked each year think otherwise.
I doubt it - considering most punters (and certainly anybody who was up to no good) would have a separate unregistered/anonymous punting phone which would quickly be binned in the event of wrongdoing, what earthly difference would it make - a call recorded without the other party's knowledge and consent would not even be admissable as evidence in court because this would be a breach of the Data Protection Act. Since you have no way of knowing what any of us think or not, I will thank you to keep your scaremongering and pointless speculation to yourself.
I think we're all more interested in safety strategies which are practical and have a provable effect, not to mention changes to the prostitution laws which would make us all safer. This is neither.
Thank you, Amy, for pointing out the glaring legal and ethical issues in this ridiculous idea of recording clients' calls - what, are we going to have them ring a shady-looking 0-whatever number (one that looks like it's going to cost everyone ?5 per minute, whether it actually does or not) and then play them a quick recorded message saying that anything they say during their phonecall may later be used [ineffectually] as evidence against them in a court of law?!?! My mind is boggling at all the nonsense!
Also, I just wanted to add a second voice to the fact that withheld number callers are the least of our problems. Genuine clients all know - or learn very quickly - that they can't see an independent escort without giving her their full number (plus a few other details). I also get maybe one or two "Private" number callers per week and I just ignore them because if I answer, they always sound super-dodgy and ask stupid and inappropriate questions - basically, they put themselves immediately on my "Do Not See" list and I really don't need an external service doing this for me.
This service just sounds like it would scare away hundreds of genuine clients and wouldn't help one bit when dealing with the few nasties out there; if anything, it might lull women into a false sense of security (maybe if they believe that nonsense about recording the phone call) and cause them to accept bookings that their gut tells them they should not.
Effective prossie security involves us - and people who are not profiting from our work - helping each other. We can do safety stuff for each other for free, and we can become involved in not-for-profit organisations that aim to change wider societal stuff as well as providing services for the everyday escort. If you'd like to do something useful, make another equally-popular Adultwork that's totally free for escorts to use. ;)
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They are, but one that is easily dealt with by blocking/not answering the WHs and proper management of TW numbers. We know how to do this.
Again, this! It is sooo simple.
What's on offer here is 'we'd like to make your life less easy, while making money off you'. And you're surprised people are not falling at your feet begging to sign up...
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agreed with all of the above (from the ladies that is)
I see posters point and fair enough it's not for us too say some girls might like it BUT do you research the opposite way and go on punting forums and ask guys if they would ever call a premium number for an independant escort. ::)
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I see posters point and fair enough it's not for us too say some girls might like it BUT do you research the opposite way and go on punting forums and ask guys if they would ever call a premium number for an independant escort. ::)
Agreed. Don't forget to mention that these calls will be intercepted and the 'private' conversations and contact details recorded and stored by an unknown and unrelated third party (in the name of 'safety').
When you have done this, please be good enough to come back and post links to the boards where you have asked, because I can't wait to read the answers.
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I agree with all that has been said already. I am a person who really does get sick of asking withheld numbers to call back. In fact I've got someone who keeps phoning me once a week for the last 12 months. I'm not however going to pay for the luxury of barring him - well not at 10p a minute to myself, or at the risk of losing business by taking on an 070 number.
The first time used an 070 number to track some newspaper ads. Do you know that all that happened was that there was great confusion. The same people seeing my ad online thought I was two different people, so would enquire on the 070 then ring back on my real mobile number. Those who already had my mobile would call on the 070 and wonder what was going on. Girls have been known to advertise with new numbers in order to conceal bad service or even worse. To top it off a chap who liked to phone for a 'chat', although annoying to me really wasn't happy to receive a bill for ?80 on his contract mobile. Imagine if his partner spotted that one!!!and also imagine if that got around on the internet. Ok his own fault for calling all the time, I didn't realise which number he was using since he'd told me he'd seen my web presence. A lot of folk would have assumed I was creaming the profits from that one - I didn't the 3rd party carrier who gave me the number did(in the same way you would of course). I had stopped using the 070 by that point.
The second time I was allocated an 070 number was by a website that offered me free advertising. This once again caused much confusion, some clients thought I was someone else or would ask me which number was mine or the best phone to call me on. They were wasting time ringing both and they thought I had 2 phones, would ring one and if couldn't get through would ring the other. When I explained they were very suspicious.
The 3rd time a website I was advertising on allocated me an 070 number without asking me, once again I got calls on both numbers, confused guys who'd got my other number and once again thought I was a different person.
By this point I'd seen numerous posts on forums(I'm on a few you see) asking about 070 premium numbers. The consensus was that these were scam numbers, that rob you of credit and that girls cream off the profits.
Now I'm all for stopping TWs and habitual texters(which is what the 070 prevents) however not at the expense of genuine clients. Quite a few do text and are genuine, but all the 070 would do is show an unsent text and the sender would then think "wrong number I won't bother ringing it".
I finally after a lot of wrangling did manage to get the 070 from the final ad removed, not after the person supplying in went on and on about the benefits you describe.
I had been pointed towards an 'escort safety' site a while back offering such a service and it just doesn't work. Regards withhelds isn't it against the data protection act to display a withheld number?and how would you do that with a works switchboard?My experience is that most who use withhelds do not go on to book, and those that do(back when I would accept them) don't show up. So knowing their numbers would just be letting in a lot more TWs.
One other point is that when you ring back from your mobile it's from your mobile number, a lot of guys won't answer numbers they don't recognise especially if they are using a seperate phone and/or are very suspicious if you do.
This whole industry operates on an aura of suspicion with guys suspecting scams, police intervention, illegality, scams from SPs all the time. Being consistent is the key to this.
This scheme sounds like it comes from someone who knows a little about the industry, but has never been on the receiving end.
By the way I've now managed to upl0ad black & white list to my phone now and am now blocking all withheld numbers with this. Blooming great.
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a call recorded without the other party's knowledge and consent would not even be admissable as evidence in court because this would be a breach of the Data Protection Act.
A small point Amy but what you say is not strictly true. It is allowed but even reading the rules it's clear they're still open to some interpretation. Typical legal fog. See here http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm
It's a moot point as in practise I'm sure punters would baulk at the thoughts of their voices being recorded. ;)
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a call recorded without the other party's knowledge and consent would not even be admissable as evidence in court because this would be a breach of the Data Protection Act.
A small point Amy but what you say is not strictly true. It is allowed but even reading the rules it's clear they're still open to some interpretation. Typical legal fog. See here http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm
It's a moot point as in practise I'm sure punters would baulk at the thoughts of their voices being recorded. ;)
Indeed, but incorrectly gathered, stored and distributed information has got people off in court before and there are enough loopholes without providing others. If it was an individual doing this without any real knowledge of the restrictions it might not matter, but it's hardly a good idea for a business plan.
Have you found our Forum Guidelines yet, just out of interest? There's also a Hello thread (where most people introduce themselves, say hello and how long they've been sex workers, that sort of thing) in Blather and Babble in case you fancy going the more usual newbie-on-forum route.