SAAFE forum
General Category => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: kinkyboots on 07 December 2013, 02:13:03 pm
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Hey everybody,
I work independently and although i am professional and responsible about the way i conduct my business there are still aspects of the industry that i am naive to. I've joined the forum to gather a little bit of advice regarding a situation i am in at the moment.
Just lately, i have been taking bookings with another escort as a duo after we got talking and seemingly had a lot on common other than our chosen profession, so we thought it'd be a great idea to team up. The girl i am working with has worked with several girls in the past but the impression i get is that she doesn't think too highly of them now, i'm not sure why as i've not pressed the matter but after getting to know her a little better i've detected an air of bitchiness about her and now i'm not all that sure weather or not i can trust her. I'm also now aware that she tells her husband literally everything, including things that other people say to her including me - as one of my comments were relayed back to me which, although wasn't entirely personal, was something me and her were discussing that i didn't expect to be repeated.
Being an open person, and until this point having had no friends in the industry whom i could relate to/talk to, i was relatively open with her and she knows my real name, area i live in etc. Could i of made a big mistake here? She is fairly open about her escorting however i am not - i'm a fair bit younger than she is and my friends and family wouldn't be as accepting of it so i try to keep it to myself as much as possible.
A longstanding client has warned me not to get too involved with other working girls for a number of reasons, they didn't elaborate and now i'm curious as to what he could of meant. When i first became 'friends' with this girl the last thing on my mind was "What if she screws me over in the long run?" because naively, being an escort talking to an escort, i naturally assumed i could trust her as she was in a similar boat to me.
Outside of my escorting world - i'm a college student with regular friends, hobbies etc. I would be mortified if people were to find out what i do and i can't help but worry that i may of made a mistake by getting involved with this girl.
Has anybody had any negative experiences as a result of working as a twosome or getting friendly with other working girls? If so what could be the associated risks other than the obvious one of her outing me if i happen to piss her off one day. I'm a member on AW and have read several blogs referring to 'keeping themselves to themselves' and not working with other females .
Please do excuse my naivety as i'm young (19) and relatively new to the industry, this is my first working 'friend'.
Any replies/advice/guidance would be more than welcome
Thank you in advance :-*
Lou x
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The subject of friendships with people who can be toxic or just generally no longer desireable is not exclusive to escorting... Mumsnet is full of discussions by women who made a friend at toddler group and a few years later they were miserable and entrenched in drama. So this is just a universal issue. But you do have the added vulnerability of being an escort who cherishes her privacy.
I say you should trust your gut on this woman and extricate yourself now before things get ugly. Just be busy and find an excuse to not work with her any more. Put some distance between you.
As far as being pals with escorts generally... I think it's a case-by-case basis. There are some people in this industry with various issues. Some of them may lead chaotic lives. I am wary of drama, myself. But I also like the couple of women I work alongside. It's good to have sex worker buddies, but keeping a bit of privacy and distance won't hurt, either. They don't have to know your real last name or where you live when you're just getting to know one another.
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I do not socialise in real life with other sex workers. I have no problems talking to the women on here, I do think its good for your sanity to have people to talk to especially if you're having a bad day. Also I believe its crucial to take advantage of the ability to share information about bad clients, legal changes etc, for your own safety and awareness.
The sex industry attracts people from across all boards - some people are funding their way through education, some people are using it to support going self employed in another field (I was the through my degree girl turned supporting myself in other self employment), other people do it because the flexibility fits in with other commitments (kids, care), some people do it because they started out as swingers etc etc. And, like all jobs, sometimes some self destructive people get into the industry who have no problems nor qualms about upsetting everyone they come into contact with who isn't funding them (you know that colleague in the office who is nice to the boss but makes everyone else's life difficult? Yup, that person). I don't think its unique to escorting/the sex industry. I have met some lovely escorts and I have met some right nasty two faced types as well. One 'friend' stole my bank card after we went shopping one day - she had watched me put my PIN into the machine, looked through my fingers - she managed to get ?600 out of my bank account about 5 days before Christmas. After that I never socialised with anyone in escorting again and never will. My private life is sacred to me and for someone to not only steal the sum of me fucking 5 different blokes but to then get access to my real name (on my bank card) and possibly have seen other things relating to my private life (student ID etc) was a very sharp wake up call to me to keep myself to myself. I've also seen other escorts being completely turned on by their other escort friends and 'excommunicated' for the silliest of things; again, the fear was "what if they tell X or Y", as well as the sting of being cast out from people they considered friends. Some people (escorts or not) never quite leave school in terms of how they treat other people, and thats fine if someone wants to live their life like that, but if you're aware of things I've done that could ruin my life and upset my family, I'd rather not give you the opportunity in the first place. Its too much of a gamble for me.
To me if you can talk about other people behind their back to me, I wonder what you say about me behind my back. A lot of people talk about how its horrible to 'out' another escort (which it is) but I'm pretty black and white in my standpoint that if you can tell people other confidences of mine, whats to say you won't let that one out if I do something that you don't like? I don't like being the topic of conversation, I like to be left alone to my own devices for the most part. I've never done the social life at work thing when I worked in offices so this is no different. Its just a job to me. I'm pleasant, I make small talk and general water cooler type chit chat but when the stockings are off, work mode is over and I have my own friends and life outside. Work is work to me - nothing more, nothing less. I don't want to go for a coffee with you, I don't want to go to the nights out, I don't want to discuss my personal life in any great depth. I find socialising with what are effectively other colleagues to be a bloody headache.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be private about this aspect of your life. Its your life, no one else's, and you are free to live it as you wish. I have two friends who know what I do, this forum, and thats enough for me to happily do my job and get paid at the end of the day. Its a job at the end of the day.
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Duos can be good fun and make you feel a little safer too however they can also turn bad very quickly.
I rarely work with anyone now after a couple of girls I did duos with. One stole all the money I had earned from the hiding place I had and before that would give out the full address to any client who even enquired.
The other started to turn up off her face on booze and became quite difficult to deal with and lost me a few regular clients due to her erratic behaviour and even managed to inform all my neighbours at my old flat as to what I was doing. she told them all about me and even showed them my website yet at the same time told them she hated I did that as she would never stoop so low.
I learned pretty quickly not to trust anyone in my apartment anymore and if you want to do duos only do them at her place or at a hotel but uf she is bitter towards every one she has worked with before then expect the same at some point
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Ive never worked with anyone either There are a few ladies on here and elsewhere that i have met with but only through coincidence that we were at the same time /same place
While i don't mind speaking on line / and on the phone to other escorts as a rule i tend to stay away from face to face contact generally to much hassle and potential for things to go wrong
I've heard of girls getting other girls real names and dates of birth via sharing flats / and touring with each other and then dropping them in the shit with hotels , apartments owners and even immigration and customs at a later point
If I'm touring /working somewerhe and i get fucked up / thrown out of a hotel then its probably something that I've done myself normally (
With sharing with another girl you have no idea how discrete she is or not until your there with her working with her and you have invested both time and money
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Met some total nutters and some amazing people in this industry. I am extremely close to a handful of women who know my real name and we are real life friends. We support each other through many circumstances most of which were not escort related at all. They called me and rallied round me after bereavement and a relationship breakdown etc. We know each other?s family members etc. Ironically, we rarely talk about anything work related. But I also had some shockers too and got ripped off by fellow escorts. Ironic as I have never been cheated by a client but stuff stolen by other women. I would carefully back off. Keep it friendly and light. Use perhaps the impending holidays to break off contact and then be really ?busy? afterwards with college. Your instincts are telling you already to be cautious.
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I don't hang out with other working girls.
I did in the past and it was a huge mistake!
I come on here when I need my sanity. Even if I don't post, and just read this board really helps!
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The little experience I have had with other escorts - I would concur with what the others say. wholeheartedly. Even though I have not had a bad experience myself the information I have been given here is enough for me to want to keep to myself
In work - You might think you have made a friend but they still view you as competition and thinking about just themselves. Your values in regards to how you work might be completely different.
With that said, I don't see anything wrong with doing duos but being wary and perhaps never crossing the professional line.
If you feel alone, there are things you can do without having to get too involved. I have been to the breakfast meet up and everyone was so lovely. The atmosphere was relaxed and it was nice to be around other people were we can openly discuss our work /issues. I never once felt like I would be "outed" by any of them. I never exchange personal details with anyone and I went on my merry way. I am on SAAFE daily and this is a nice place to hang too and have open discussions. So there are ways to "mingle" if this industry and stay discreet and not feel isolated. The problem always seems to lie in when you get too close to someone.
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Hiya Kinky.
You have concerns. Here's my stuff & my 'Take on your post'
Escorts I know
I've done Duo's with a few Escorts. (It's an occasional thing though the last time was Thursday night).
Each of the other Escorts are people who are already long-term friends.
That makes it easier to be comfortable with how the other Escorts perform,
both in client approach and communication between me and them during sessions.
(Body language rather than spoken in front of the clients).
Also their approach both to safety, sexual health (that's a huge deal for me) and business sense & discression.
Escorts I don't know
Oh, I also did a multi-Escort gig (Two other Escorts) in the summer.
That was awesome too. The client arranged and booked us separately for a meet at his hotel room.
As a consequence, we all met for the first time in-session.
TBH I "Lucked in" as the other Escorts worked in a similar vein to me.
To the degree that we later swapped email / AW details for possible future multi-bookings.
Truth is it could have been a disaster if we had different approaches.
I think the Client did a fair bit of work beforehand to get this balance
(He asked me a lot of questions about my work approach and sexual safety attitude. He'd had a number of prior sessions with the other Escorts).
If I don't know the other Escort then I treat the job the same as if I'm with just a client:
I don't let my money, phone or car keys out of my sight.
An Escort I know, but have never worked with
I love Duo's though bear in mind it is totally illegal.
I might infer very tangentially that a duo is doable,
but I don't blatantly advertise this in the way that so many Escorts do.
Coz that is just silly.
I know one Escort who was doing Duo's with her flat mate at their place in Central London.
The volume of clients led to neighbours contacting the police.
Five-O visited them and simply produced copies of ads from AW and various other sites
where the Duo service was offered. Banged to rights, comes to mind.
Anyway, it was made clear that only one of them could work from the flat from that point on.
Discretion is a must.
kinkyboots, it appears as though you have reservations about your Duo buddy.
As you can tell, I think duo's are fun and increase personal safety in session,
vs. compromise re. legalities.
You are not comfortable about your Duo buddy.
I'd suggest that you stop doing Duo's with this person
as the worry isn't worth it.
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I love Duo's though bear in mind it is totally illegal.
Incall at working flat etc - yep, it's a brothel. (Mind you, if you don't have sole use of it, it already is!) This can attract more attention, and is illegal to run or premit.
Incall at hotel etc - there's no brothel issue because even if it is one, you're not running etc it. If the place knows money is involved, you're even more likely to be kicked out.
Outcall - again there's no brothel issue because even if it is one, you're not running etc it. It is just about possible that you could get into trouble if you get booked together rather than separately (whoever takes the booking could be said to control the other and they're certainly gaining from the booking) but you'd have to be very unlucky.
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Every time I've done work with another escort I've got my fingers burnt, so I just don't do it.
I have no need or desire to have another girl working with me and those that do are usually trying to get business from you. I've also got my own trade secrets that I don't like to share directly with anyone who is likely to become a competitor.
The only time doing a duo is worth it, is a one off situation with a client paying a lot of money. That's okay, but IME is so rare that I don't bother doing them.
Although I would add that duo's are a good way to learn the ropes. You can demonstrate to a new girl and also be there to advise. But you can hardly charge full rates for that.
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I'm a great believer in instinct, and if you're instinct is saying not to trust her then I would maybe be wary and not get too close. Since joining the industry I've met some great people. Two who are really motherly to me and like to give me advice on working/life etc which i find really helpful as they've done the job a long time, I also know a lot about their life and vice versa. Also another girl who I became really close with, we toured together and knew everything about one another and also met one another family and friends etc.
It's nice to have a friend in this industry as it can be v isolating sometimes but I would be v careful who you befriend, their is good and bad WG just like in the normal world, it just feels like when something bad happens in this industry it's a lot more hard hitting.
Just go with your gut, but from what you've said I wouldnt reveal a lot. xo
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RR :-* dolly and I thought I had it bad, note to self stop moaning could have been much worse. virtual hugs and kisses to anyone with horrible experiences. Okay I will moan one last time then I am done lol ;D.moan ;D
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Imagine every problem a normal friendship can create then triple it, thats how much trouble doing duos can create. Then again, if you are both of the same work ethic then there is no reason any friction should appear.
Just remember though, some girls cannot cope with it when the client prefers the other one over her, some of them are very blatant in displaying their preference for one girl over the other without a care to how it makes the cold shouldered girl feel. This can create issues where none arose before if not handled correctly. If you are ever on the shitty end just take deep breath and dont blame the other girl, its not her fault if the guy is acting like an ass and likely even more mortified than you. If the other way around make sure you keep including the other girl so she doesnt feel ignored by you too. Ive been in both situations and it isn't pleasant for either of you either way.
You just have to be mature about it and realise its going to happen sooner or later and agree that it won't affect your working relationship. This may sound like stating the obvious but I have had a girl jealous in the past and saying things to clients, caught her dissecting my website, aw profile to find out why he liked me more, its pathetic as I didnt do it to her when the shoe was on the other foot.
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I did duo once and that was ages ago, so don't know much about duo thing. As for escort friends, I find it more helpful than harmful as long as you keep the one bottom line rule.
Never ever give personal information.
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I love duos, I started out this way, being mentored (yes exceptionally lucky) and introduced to other ladies clients before going solo.
You absolutely have to respect a code of conduct in my opinion, for example not give out your number to the client without asking who's booking it is first, even then I'd be very reluctant. Give priority to her as a 'hostess' almost introducing you as 'the new girl' to play with, using it as role play at times. Its endless the fun you can have with another girl to plot scenarios and team up to create fantasies. BUT I have to genuinely get on with my duo girl to turn that ordinary booking into a memorable one.
Otherwise I'd rather go solo.
I always meet prospective duo partners first for coffee, its essential for my clients that I can confidently reccomend them. To be groomed or dressed a certain way or act how they would like, its like interviewing each other - same thing - its a job. Its another area where your intuition is needed.
Like in any business arrangement, choose your partners to suit the needs of your client and booking. Do they like two girls of similar build, bust, colouring and demeanour or do they want a contrast. Its intuitive.
I am in the mature bracket so I think age does help suss out potential trouble makers easier. Take nothing personaly and my policy is one strike of bad behaviour and they are out...no more duos with me, there is no space for games or drama. That wouldn't suit my clientelle and reflect badly on me.
As I am now semi retired and only see longstanding regulars, its more important than ever.
Find and meet a few good girls you can work with, help each other out, trust a little, be kind but don't trust too much with anything irretrievable physically or emotionally. Its worked brilliantly for me, and has been invaluable.
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I have never done a duo, but one of the best people i met out here in oz is a sex worker and we met because i was new here and emailed her asking to be her friend have someone who understood the job ect (i know but i was lonely ok). We didn't start out being extremely open with each other however as time went on we began to trust and know alot about each other and are really good friends. for example Me, her, my bf and her daughter all went out for dinner together last night.
She is really really lovely. Don't believe everyone out there is going to f*ck you over but be weary. As many of the other ladies have already said, you sound like you have seen a change in her, and that your not comfortable with her. go with your gut. don't be friends with someone useless you like them dont work with someone unless you can trust them.
and when your naked and have hundreds of pounds in cash helps to trust them.
hope it works out for you xx
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Being a male escort...I just haven't found other male escorts to be even remotely considerable to do a duo with.
I don't mean to suggest that everyone has an intent to screw each other over...but I've often found merely getting to KNOW other escorts have raised brows. They can be friendly and may be open to talk lots initially, but then you start to see they are really just trying to learn about you from a competitor's standpoint...and be able to size you up, compare whether they are getting the same amount of business of not, etc.
Once they determine and milk all the information from you that they need, you'll find very often they fall to the wayside. And I would never want to have a true falling out with an escort I worked with. One guy was being so friendly nosey, I had to tell him a couple of times "that's not your business". Asking if I pay taxes, and then trying to illicit fear in me when I told him about a situation that had nothing to do with escorting.
I've been working alone for 5-6 years, and haven't found any reason to work with someone else. Non. Not 1 iota.
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Hi Ladies (^ and gents)
I thought i would update this post as quite some time has passed and i got my closure on the matter. Absolute bloody nightmare! Just like i'd expected and just like most of you had warned me. I found out from one of the clients that she'd actually confronted him about paying me more attention on a duo and been a real arse about it. She didn't say anything to me personally but had made a point of getting in touch with him to vent her frustrations.
I clearly couldn't trust her and following that i wanted no more to do with her so cut her loose whilst remaining civil then had a whole new set of problems from her during the time we didn't speak. There was no argument when we went our separate ways but my god did she turn out to be nasty and vindictive. I'll not specify exactly what happened because i don't know if she reads the forum at all and i don't want to be identified by her, but she could've made me lose my child doing what she did, a very spiteful act indeed.
I don't associate with other escorts anymore, if i've got something to offload or something i'm curious about i just come on saafe instead (notice the increase in my posts since this one lol) and the chat, advice and support is much better, with no associated bullshit on the side ;D
I've learned from this experience that it's better to keep to myself completely in regards to 'the real me' and potential 'friends' in the industry, it's just not worth the potential (and evident) hassle in the long run.
I'm glad others manage to discover genuine friendships in other WG's though, obviously not everybody is like her or the other backstabbing ones that the ladies have mentioned in the thread :)
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Hey everybody,
I work independently and although i am professional and responsible about the way i conduct my business there are still aspects of the industry that i am naive to. I've joined the forum to gather a little bit of advice regarding a situation i am in at the moment.
Just lately, i have been taking bookings with another escort as a duo after we got talking and seemingly had a lot on common other than our chosen profession, so we thought it'd be a great idea to team up. The girl i am working with has worked with several girls in the past but the impression i get is that she doesn't think too highly of them now, i'm not sure why as i've not pressed the matter but after getting to know her a little better i've detected an air of bitchiness about her and now i'm not all that sure weather or not i can trust her. I'm also now aware that she tells her husband literally everything, including things that other people say to her including me - as one of my comments were relayed back to me which, although wasn't entirely personal, was something me and her were discussing that i didn't expect to be repeated.
Being an open person, and until this point having had no friends in the industry whom i could relate to/talk to, i was relatively open with her and she knows my real name, area i live in etc. Could i of made a big mistake here? She is fairly open about her escorting however i am not - i'm a fair bit younger than she is and my friends and family wouldn't be as accepting of it so i try to keep it to myself as much as possible.
A longstanding client has warned me not to get too involved with other working girls for a number of reasons, they didn't elaborate and now i'm curious as to what he could of meant. When i first became 'friends' with this girl the last thing on my mind was "What if she screws me over in the long run?" because naively, being an escort talking to an escort, i naturally assumed i could trust her as she was in a similar boat to me.
Outside of my escorting world - i'm a college student with regular friends, hobbies etc. I would be mortified if people were to find out what i do and i can't help but worry that i may of made a mistake by getting involved with this girl.
Has anybody had any negative experiences as a result of working as a twosome or getting friendly with other working girls? If so what could be the associated risks other than the obvious one of her outing me if i happen to piss her off one day. I'm a member on AW and have read several blogs referring to 'keeping themselves to themselves' and not working with other females .
Please do excuse my naivety as i'm young (19) and relatively new to the industry, this is my first working 'friend'.
Any replies/advice/guidance would be more than welcome
Thank you in advance :-*
Lou x
Two faced springs to mind. She bad mouths others so could be about you to others as well. You get people like that even more so in this business. Remember jealousy...... Listen to you gutt feeling before you get hurt.
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I am sorry you had this crap experience. :(
I feel so fortunate to have met someone who I get along with really well, and trust completely. We've never done duo's because we've such different styles, but we have shared a flat for a time and still work quite near each other, so we meet up and socialise sometimes. It's a real blessing to have someone in the industry to be friends with.
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If you're keeping your job secret, you need to keep your private life secret. If she gossips, your clients could end up knowing your home address - you definitely dont want that. I wouldnt socialise with working girls because thats your personal time...you have a 'working name' for a reason, its sort of putting on an act. When you go home at the end of the day, that 'working girl' skin has been shed. Its about emotionally protecting yourself, as women it can be hard to do.