SAAFE forum
General Category => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: misskitty on 29 April 2015, 10:12:36 am
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Hi,
I'm glad to have found this forum and it has been very helpful! However mostly it seems to be guided towards the UK market, so I wonder if someone can give me some guidance towards working in the US? I am located in Belgium, and doing quite good here, but for new experiences and more work I'd be interested in touring the US, specifically NYC. I have been there a few times before, but always with one client from Belgium booking me for the whole stay there.
I am currently in the process of getting a company for my services registered and started, including a bank account without my name for receiving fees, and making credit card processing available on my website. Credit card processing I figured was a good way to take payments and deposits more easily than a bank transfer. I know of the issues of reporting a credit card transaction as fradulent afterwards, but am working on a solution.
Anyway, after all that yada yada, my main point is touring NYC! Eros I have figured is the best place for ads. Any other sites that are noteworthy?
I am of course worried about the involvement of LE though. What are some red flags for those? And how do you best screen US clients?
I am planning on accepting the payment electronically only, or at least having the majority of a booking paid by card/transfer, as I can't take more than 10k out of the country anyway. Do you think the clients would be wary of this system? Once I get my things up and running I will have the vat number of my company on the website, ssl secured card processing etc, so it will not look amateurish at all, but I wonder about clients feeling sussed about paying this way.
Also, any advice on which hotel is good? I'd like a nice place for myself, but also client friendly in the case of a possible incall.
So this turned out a bit long, but I would love to hear your experiences on touring in the us and general advice for it!
Thanks in advance :)
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There is stuff about working in the US (including New York specifically as well as screening etc) here, but if you can't find it via a search, it may be somewhere you can't see yet.
Yep, the huge problem with accepting credit cards is the issue of chargebacks, where the card holder disputes the payment and the credit card company gives them their money back by taking it back / not giving it to you. There's also the delay between taking the card payment and actually getting the money, and the fact that it leaves a paper trail that may not be to your advantage if you're somewhere sex for money is illegal. (OK, three huge problems...) So are you willing to have sex with someone just in the hope that you'll get the money?
The Belgian authorities must also be more relaxed than their UK equivalents if they'll allow a company's business to be prostitution... and I can't see clients wanting to leave a paper trail either. (Although it is going to make chargebacks more likely.)
It's been a while since I've been, but does the US have exchange controls like that?
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Hi xv5, and thanks for your insight. I probably should try to look in to the tips on NYC already posted on this forum a bit more in depth.
As for Belgian authorities and lax business checking, it is not that I explicitly list my company as prostitution, but it is also not too difficult to deduce the "meaning" of my business. It's completely legal here btw, and being that I am the only employee but with an employed assistant, it's completely legal.
And yess... The credit cards are quite an issue. The response I've gotten from my business advisors is taking a document needing a signature to a booking, making the payee acknowledge the credit card payment is not refundable, and getting 2 signatures on that thing, so by that time it's clear it's non refundable. And yes, leaving a paper trail for the client is not preferrable, but I plan to explain in the Q&A section of my website that it's truly quite difficuly for the US authorities to get the banking details of some random company in Belgium, so realistically that shouldn't be a problem, let alone prove something illegal happened, as my website doesn't mention anything about escorting or specific services offered.
Also, one of the main reasons I am interested in NYC, is that since it's quite difficult in the legality department, the prices are very high. 1000 to 1500 seems pretty normal, whereas in Belgium I am charging between 350-500 per hour.
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Also, one of the main reasons I am interested in NYC, is that since it's quite difficult in the legality department, the prices are very high. 1000 to 1500 seems pretty normal,
Assuming you mean USD per hour, it's really not normal - these are extremely high rates anywhere you go and just because you've seen some ads on Eros stating them (and I can't think of anywhere else outside a few agencies listing well know 'porn stars' and the like), that doesn't make it a benchmark figure.
I work in NYC a couple of times a year and have never had problems, but if I tried charging anything like that amount I'd be amazed to get any bookings. Even the 'High Rollers' sections on some ad boards are for people wanting over 400 per hour and even assuming you fit into a very conventionally attractive part of the market and offer a very wide range of services I think 1000+ is pretty pie in the sky. It's completely up to you what you charge, but don't go there thinking this is 'normal'.
Also be aware that hotel prices make London and Paris look reasonable, and for even a bog standard workable hotel expect to pay 200? per night absolute minimum unless you get lucky with a special deal somewhere. And if you're going to charge millionaire rates, bog standard won't cut it.
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I m also working in Holland where prostitution is legal and i got my own escorting company. When i have a cc payment i charge 5%extra and on the receipt i ask the client to give me his ID number and a signature , like that i m sure he will never cancel the payment
. American expres i do not accept as they can take the money back any time even if i have a signature and ID number . Good luck
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Hi amy and sandra29, and thanks for your answers.
perhaps I am being a big optimistic with the rates, thanks for pointing that out. From my research I found 750 is pretty average on eros for younger ones, and some do charge 1000 or 1000+ without offering much more than a gfe and a nice appearance. Then there is backpage etc, but I think that might attract the wrong type of customer. I think my best bet is to put an ad on eros about a month or so in advance before actually touring and try to gauge out the intrest with my rates etc.
i've done touring with an agency in London a lot, and indeed, even there a reasonable hotel is very expensive. Nice room in a nice area is atleast ?300 a night, in nyc more like $500 a night, so overheads are high. Plus in London I paid 35% to the agency, so very glad to be doing it myself.
I should be touring in NYC this summer, or maybe even early in the fall, I will come back to report how it goes :)
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Well 750 per hour isn't 'average', it is high, but it's more realistic - I'm concerned you seem to be taking Eros as gospel though, especially as it's well known for bait and switch/fake ads. That said, not everybody wants to be busy, and fewer punters means less screening - longer bookings are more common there which I'm not keen on, but again, it's less prep.
Are you only putting one ad up for a tour which will cost you a fortune? Eros visiting ads last two weeks, so you'll need at least two and possibly three at the VIP rate - they're not cheap. Backpage can be crawling with LE and robbers but your main problem with it will be screening, as punters there tend to just ring expecting a booking there and then and I don't use it. Eros has lots of timewasters and fantasists who'll try to string you along without actually booking, and ploughing through them on your first trip will be a pain in the arse, but that's the same the first time you go anywhere.
In the five years I've been going, the toughest month by far was August as it's extremely hot (and July is worse) plus a lot of people leave the city. I'd definitely recommend leaving it until it cools off.
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There is a well known US site that only advertises about 50 of the top escorts. It's pretty much a who's who. 75% of these girls charge less than $750 an hour. In fact they put a "Diamond Elite" on your profile if you do. Those are hard core fitness girls who have pages and pages of "I can't believe she's real!" reviews.
I don't mean to knock you whatsoever, but if you're very good and well known in your country, but have no following in the US, $600 is probably the highest safe amount to charge in NYC. $750 is probably the highest pie-in-the-sky but may still get bookings rate.
The other thing to think about is that US guys generally book for longer than an hour and we don't like short bookings. So a lady who charges $750 for an hour probably charges $1200 for two hours and that is what men will book. The $750 is more to discourage what we consider short bookings. Also just a listing on eros won't get you seen- it's competitive. You need to buy featured spots etc. Expect to spend $1000 at least if you want to be seen.
All that said, I love tours to NYC. The men are nice, very on-time coming and going, and really enjoy the "visiting escort" scene (often bragging about who they've seen in a very fun talking-shop way). I'll pm you the advertising site- it's so small and I'm trying to be a little anonymous here.
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With my cynical hat on, I wonder how they decide who is a 'top escort'...
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If (as I suspect) it's Gina's Little Secret, it'll be a combination of fitting the requisite physical stereotype, lying about being a prostitute, good old fashioned marketing snobbery and cash.
The first one probably isn't as important provided your pictures are identikit pro and airbrushed to within an inch of your life, the second is par for the course in the US and anybody with the funds can blag the third :).
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NYC is a place where you need to be very careful. I've worked there half of my life so I know what I'm talking about :-). Backpage is full of LE, but they also love to bust high end prossies from EROS too (the 750$ an hour ones). A typical NYPD sting operation is when they hire a room in a high end hotel (they used to do it from the plaza in 59th st for many years till they got converted into apartments) and now they're doing it from other hotels. Vice will start calling "high end" escorts from EROS guide asking for an outcall. The prossie/agency will call the hotel and verify his name/room number. Of course the hotel is working in conjunction with the police and will tell the girl what she wants to hear. So lady will arrive to the room, get recorded on camera and arrested. Then police will move on to call the next one. They usually arrest 20 prossies a day with this type of sting operations. So you need to be extra extra cautious when going to hotels. I only did outcalls to private homes because of this reason. There's no sting operations done from private homes.
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NYC is a place where you need to be very careful. I've worked there half of my life so I know what I'm talking about :-). Backpage is full of LE, but they also love to bust high end prossies from EROS too (the 750$ an hour ones). A typical NYPD sting operation is when they hire a room in a high end hotel (they used to do it from the plaza in 59th st for many years till they got converted into apartments) and now they're doing it from other hotels. Vice will start calling "high end" escorts from EROS guide asking for an outcall. The prossie/agency will call the hotel and verify his name/room number. Of course the hotel is working in conjunction with the police and will tell the girl what she wants to hear. So lady will arrive to the room, get recorded on camera and arrested. Then police will move on to call the next one. They usually arrest 20 prossies a day with this type of sting operations. So you need to be extra extra cautious when going to hotels. I only did outcalls to private homes because of this reason. There's no sting operations done from private homes.
So, what happens when they get arrested. Are touring prossies safer, since they're more likely to stamp out an entrenched local scene, or doesn't it work that way?
I've been thinking of touring NYC for a long time, but I suspect I'll not be allowed to enter the US again once I've been unlucky and got busted.
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So, what happens when they get arrested. Are touring prossies safer, since they're more likely to stamp out an entrenched local scene, or doesn't it work that way?
I've been thinking of touring NYC for a long time, but I suspect I'll not be allowed to enter the US again once I've been unlucky and got busted.
If (and it's if, not when :)) you got sprung, you'd be deported and yes, it's unlucky you'd be allowed back in for a good number of years at least, although I don't know about never.
It's worth pointing out that if proper screening was being applied (getting references, screening info and so on rather than just ringing a hotel asking for Mr X in Room Y as we would here), the above scenario is extremely unlikely - there was a lot more activity last year around the time of the Superbowl but I was there the week after and nobody I saw mentioned being unduly concerned about anything. Then again, I don't do outcalls when I'm away, and I'm not claiming to be an expert.
I do know that neither I nor anybody I know who visits and screens properly has ever had any LE problems, although cracks can and do happen. I suspect a middle aged woman popping over to work quietly from a hotel for a few days is unlikely to be anywhere near the top of the NYPD's To Do list :).
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So, what happens when they get arrested. Are touring prossies safer, since they're more likely to stamp out an entrenched local scene, or doesn't it work that way?
I've been thinking of touring NYC for a long time, but I suspect I'll not be allowed to enter the US again once I've been unlucky and got busted.
I do know that neither I nor anybody I know who visits and screens properly has ever had any LE problems, although cracks can and do happen. I suspect a middle aged woman popping over to work quietly from a hotel for a few days is unlikely to be anywhere near the top of the NYPD's To Do list :).
Here's hoping. I think I'll start with a short tour, see one (well screened) guy a day to cover the hotel, and do touristy stuff for the rest of my stay. I love New York, so I'll pluck up the courage some day.
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So, what happens when they get arrested. Are touring prossies safer, since they're more likely to stamp out an entrenched local scene, or doesn't it work that way?
I've been thinking of touring NYC for a long time, but I suspect I'll not be allowed to enter the US again once I've been unlucky and got busted.
If (and it's if, not when :)) you got sprung, you'd be deported and yes, it's unlucky you'd be allowed back in for a good number of years at least, although I don't know about never.
It's worth pointing out that if proper screening was being applied (getting references, screening info and so on rather than just ringing a hotel asking for Mr X in Room Y as we would here), the above scenario is extremely unlikely - there was a lot more activity last year around the time of the Superbowl but I was there the week after and nobody I saw mentioned being unduly concerned about anything. Then again, I don't do outcalls when I'm away, and I'm not claiming to be an expert.
I do know that neither I nor anybody I know who visits and screens properly has ever had any LE problems, although cracks can and do happen. I suspect a middle aged woman popping over to work quietly from a hotel for a few days is unlikely to be anywhere near the top of the NYPD's To Do list :).
Hi Amy,
No you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution -absolutely not- because it's a "B class misdemeanor" which is too small crime (something compared to shop lifting, also a B misdemeanor). BUT you will spend 3 days in jail, then charged with "prostitution",then do one week of community service (usually cleaning the subway which is what they make all prossies do). Your prostitution charges will stay on your US criminal background for two years (after that they get "sealed" and dissapear unless you commit another crime). In that two year frame of time if you fill the ESTA form (the one you fill online before travelling to the US) your arrest will "pop" up in their computers and your entry into the US denied.
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So yes, you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution, but your entry to the US will be denied for a couple of years after the arrest. Also, prostitution (like drugs) is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" (which basically means you have no morals), So if you ever marry a US citizen, or apply for a greencard or any type of US student, work, business visa etc.. you won't be eligible because of that bloody prostitution arrest 5 years ago...
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Hi Amy,
No you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution -absolutely not- because it's a "B class misdemeanor" which is too small crime (something compared to shop lifting, also a B misdemeanor). BUT you will spend 3 days in jail, then charged with "prostitution",then do one week of community service (usually cleaning the subway which is what they make all prossies do). Your prostitution charges will stay on your US criminal background for two years (after that they get "sealed" and dissapear unless you commit another crime). In that two year frame of time if you fill the ESTA form (the one you fill online before travelling to the US) your arrest will "pop" up in their computers and your entry into the US denied.
Well that's no problem then - I was told by what I'd consider a pretty reliable source that I'd be banged to rights at the station then either on the next plane home or kept in the cells until my booked flight was due if it was the following day or whatever, but that was a good year or so ago. I knew about the community service, but I was led to believe they wouldn't bother for non-nationals who were only staying there a few days because the paperwork wouldn't be worth the time and hassle.
Like anything else in prostitution anywhere I think it's risk vs reward, and everybody draws the line in a different place :).
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Hi Amy,
No you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution -absolutely not- because it's a "B class misdemeanor" which is too small crime (something compared to shop lifting, also a B misdemeanor). BUT you will spend 3 days in jail, then charged with "prostitution",then do one week of community service (usually cleaning the subway which is what they make all prossies do). Your prostitution charges will stay on your US criminal background for two years (after that they get "sealed" and dissapear unless you commit another crime). In that two year frame of time if you fill the ESTA form (the one you fill online before travelling to the US) your arrest will "pop" up in their computers and your entry into the US denied.
Well that's no problem then - I was told by what I'd consider a pretty reliable source that I'd be banged to rights at the station then either on the next plane home or kept in the cells until my booked flight was due if it was the following day or whatever, but that was a good year or so ago. I knew about the community service, but I was led to believe they wouldn't bother for non-nationals who were only staying there a few days because the paperwork wouldn't be worth the time and hassle.
Like anything else in prostitution anywhere I think it's risk vs reward, and everybody draws the line in a different place :).
I have an excellent NY lawyer who has "saved "my butt" through the years a couple of times and I've had this conversation with him.He specializes in "prossie stuff" so if you want his number pm me and I'll give it to you. He's a super decent chap and the best lawyer I've ever had.
Also: Throughout the years I've personally encountered many European prossies who got arrested and nobody got deported. US government would rather have you clean their subways for free that escort you to the airport and pay you a flight back to your country. Think about it, If they had to put on a plane every tourist who committed a small crime they would need a whole new fleet of aeroplanes in JFK just for that.
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There's a lady that blogged about getting refused entry last year because she had been way to many times and she was questioned on entering they looked through her laptop / phones and worked out she was working and she was put on the next flight back to the UK
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There's a lady that blogged about getting refused entry last year because she had been way to many times and she was questioned on entering they looked through her laptop / phones and worked out she was working and she was put on the next flight back to the UK
That's typical. Every flight that goes to the US there's always a bunch people who get taken to the "little white room" for interrogation. Not only prossies, Nannies, waiters, and you-name-the-trade get sent back to their countries because the guy at the airport suspected they're coming to work to the US. That's the reason the staff at the flight companies ask people to have their phones fully charged when they board a plane to the US, so that INS can "snoop" through all your e-mails etc...if they need to and see what you're up to.
Remember that by "touring" in the states you're breaking two laws: 1) You're working with a tourist visa (which is verbotten) and 2) You're doing a criminal activity (prostitution). So you better do your "homework" before boarding that flight to Houston ???
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So yes, you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution, but your entry to the US will be denied for a couple of years after the arrest. Also, prostitution (like drugs) is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" (which basically means you have no morals), So if you ever marry a US citizen, or apply for a greencard or any type of US student, work, business visa etc.. you won't be eligible because of that bloody prostitution arrest 5 years ago...
In fact I believe you risk being denied for life. I know a couple, the husband of whom transgressed in a completely different way and he has been informed he will never be allowed to enter the US again. His wife is an American citizen. What happened to them was due to a mix up over flights and a subsequent cancelled flight he overstayed his entry visa and was caught on the way out. Be very careful what you do and what you get caught doing over there. They are very unforgiving.
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So yes, you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution, but your entry to the US will be denied for a couple of years after the arrest. Also, prostitution (like drugs) is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" (which basically means you have no morals), So if you ever marry a US citizen, or apply for a greencard or any type of US student, work, business visa etc.. you won't be eligible because of that bloody prostitution arrest 5 years ago...
In fact I believe you risk being denied for life. I know a couple, the husband of whom transgressed in a completely different way and he has been informed he will never be allowed to enter the US again. His wife is an American citizen. What happened to them was due to a mix up over flights and a subsequent cancelled flight he overstayed his entry visa and was caught on the way out. Be very careful what you do and what you get caught doing over there. They are very unforgiving.
Overstaying your visa is an entirely different thing, and falls into a category different than committing a crime. I don't know if being convicted of a crime of moral turpitude will get one barred for life of not but it is committing a specific act. Overstaying's one visa is somehow different.
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It is true that entering the US many times close together will trigger suspicional.
A Brit popping over to NYC for a few days with the excuse "I like to go shopping and to see a Broadway show a couple of times a year" with a return ticket is perfectly plausible.
Having relatives or a dear close friend can be a plausible excuse to visit any given city over and over. But that many stays should be relatively brief. And having some evidence of a thriving, ongoing life back at home is also helpful.
If you come over a lot, you will begin to become scrutinised. I think it makes sense to have your laptop, Filofax, and phone "clean" of plans to work in the US.
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So yes, you won't get deported when arrested for prostitution, but your entry to the US will be denied for a couple of years after the arrest. Also, prostitution (like drugs) is considered a "crime of moral turpitude" (which basically means you have no morals), So if you ever marry a US citizen, or apply for a greencard or any type of US student, work, business visa etc.. you won't be eligible because of that bloody prostitution arrest 5 years ago...
In fact I believe you risk being denied for life. I know a couple, the husband of whom transgressed in a completely different way and he has been informed he will never be allowed to enter the US again. His wife is an American citizen. What happened to them was due to a mix up over flights and a subsequent cancelled flight he overstayed his entry visa and was caught on the way out. Be very careful what you do and what you get caught doing over there. They are very unforgiving.
Overstaying your visa is an entirely different thing, and falls into a category different than committing a crime. I don't know if being convicted of a crime of moral turpitude will get one barred for life of not but it is committing a specific act. Overstaying's one visa is somehow different.
I can't go into detail here, but it was only one day over and not the fault of the passport holder.
All I'm trying to say is be very careful. I know several true cases of people being banned from entering, they can be quite unreasonable. Remember they put Boris Johnson on a flight back because they wouldn't grant him entry with a UK passport - and he was the Mayor of London at the time.
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All I'm trying to say is be very careful. I know several true cases of people being banned from entering, they can be quite unreasonable. Remember they put Boris Johnson on a flight back because they wouldn't grant him entry with a UK passport - and he was the Mayor of London at the time.
.... And the US embassy in London denied Amy Winehouse a visa to go to Miami and sing at the grammy awards because of her drug conviction (she had six grammy nominations). Which was pretty ridiculous considering she was arrested in... Norway! (not even the US), for smoking marihuana, but her crime was considered of "moral turpitude" and she got screwed turned down.
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NYC is a place where you need to be very careful. I've worked there half of my life so I know what I'm talking about :-). Backpage is full of LE, but they also love to bust high end prossies from EROS too (the 750$ an hour ones). A typical NYPD sting operation is when they hire a room in a high end hotel (they used to do it from the plaza in 59th st for many years till they got converted into apartments) and now they're doing it from other hotels. Vice will start calling "high end" escorts from EROS guide asking for an outcall. The prossie/agency will call the hotel and verify his name/room number. Of course the hotel is working in conjunction with the police and will tell the girl what she wants to hear. So lady will arrive to the room, get recorded on camera and arrested. Then police will move on to call the next one. They usually arrest 20 prossies a day with this type of sting operations. So you need to be extra extra cautious when going to hotels. I only did outcalls to private homes because of this reason. There's no sting operations done from private homes.
You don't even have to be high-end to be targeted by LE in NYC. A number of years back I took out a Spotlight ad on Eros. Ohmygosh, so many of the phone calls and emails seemed suspect, *and* my rates were definitely in the normal range. I think it was the visibility factor that they wanted to bust someone.
At the time, indies weren't even targeted the way they are today. It's a whole different ballgame where you have to be super careful going to hotels. I used to do this alllll the time with no problems. It's gotten to the point where even though NYC can be one of the greatest markets in the world, some have sought out other locales where you can operate with much less hassle. After all, who wants a bust on their record?
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In any case if someone is going to NY and wants a good attorney specializing in prossie stuff feel free to contact me by pm. ;)
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As Amy said, it's the same old risk v. reward....it's for everyone to work out how much of a risk it is and if they are willing to take it or not.
I don't think it's one for me, but I can see why ladies want to go there...part of me does too, but I know I won't!!!
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In any case if someone is going to NY and wants a good attorney specializing in prossie stuff feel free to contact me by pm. ;)
Could you send me the NYC lawyer contact .... its very important