See also the main SAAFE.info site for more Support And Advice For Escorts

Author Topic: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws  (Read 1318 times)

xSakurax

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« on: 09 August 2024, 02:28:37 pm »
I've been looking into doing duos with a friend, however I am really confused about how brothel keeping laws work with this kind of arrangement. As far as I can understand, outcalls are fine but taking incalls as a duo would count as brothel keeping right? What about taking duo incalls from an (well-known short-term rental site) or hotel etc?
I know there are ways around this but I personally try to keep things above board as much as possible :)
« Last Edit: 09 August 2024, 03:18:44 pm by xw5 »

xw5

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,902
    • I should be updating this instead...
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #1 on: 09 August 2024, 03:18:01 pm »
In terms of the law in England and Wales, a brothel is any property more than one person is offering sexual services, whether at the same time or not, and whether or not any money (ie prostitution) is involved.

Quite a lot of places are brothels :)

They're illegal to run, control, or allow in any property you are responsible for.

In practice, if you don't annoy the neighbours, no-one will care.

Don't do them from any well-known short-term rental site - they will mind if they know (being a US operation, the company takes a staggeringly dim view of prostitution.)

In terms of hotels, if they'd throw you out for working solo, they'd do it for this!
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

lora

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #2 on: 10 August 2024, 07:52:41 am »
Do you know If the law is the same in Scotland. If I allow one friend to work from my property( I would be present but only for security) then that isn't a brothel is it?

I have heard of scottish police making booking with different SPs and then if the address is the same they are charged (or shut down) for running a brothel. 

xw5

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,902
    • I should be updating this instead...
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #3 on: 10 August 2024, 09:53:56 am »
(Looks..)

Yep, that's a brothel.

When the various police forces in Scotland merged to become Police Scotland, sadly the view around sex work that prevailed was that of Glasgow rather than the vastly more sensible pragmatic one of Edinburgh.

Scotland also still hasn't repealed the offence of 'procuring' any woman in the UK to come to work in one, so advertising for an incall duo partner would be covered by that.

As elsewhere, the law's clearly not universally enforced: some of the Edinburgh saunas that everyone (including the council who licence them) knows are brothels are still around - and advertising for staff! - but there are fewer than there were.

In practice, don't annoy the neighbours and find out from SCOT-PEP what the police in your area are doing.

(See the post https://saafe.info/main/politics-and-academicmedia-queries/consultation-on-criminalising-clients-in-scotland/msg444081/ about the consultation Ash Regan MSP is having on criminalising clients in Scotland.)
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

lora

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #4 on: 10 August 2024, 04:15:40 pm »
Thank you for taking the time to research for me. I tried looking it up myself but my head wasn't in the right place to deal with all the legal jargon. I have worked in Edinburgh saunas and I know they tried to shut them down when police scotland took over but. There was some kind of old contract that had been signed many years ago. Glasgow saunas were shut down (apart from gay ones).
 Although the saunas are still allowed in Edinburgh they are not really licensed just tolerated. But compared to most parlours in England they have to be very discreet in the marketing and advertising. And you are not really supposed to mention anything about sexual services until in the room with the clients.

I wouldn't advertise online only rent discreetly to friends and really there is no need for anyone to know they are paying me at all. I can just say I'm helping them out because they need somewhere safe. I was actually going to let my friend work there for free once because she was doing car meets and I was concerned for her safety.

Scotland is quite backwards when it comes to the sex industry unfortunately. If I did get a knock from the police I would just apologise plead ignorance and stop what I was doing. I doubt they would take it any further. But yes I might try SCOT PEP for more localised advise
« Last Edit: 10 August 2024, 04:22:06 pm by lora »

xw5

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,902
    • I should be updating this instead...
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #5 on: 10 August 2024, 05:58:34 pm »
The gay ones are legally brothels too.

In England and Wales, when what became the Sexual Offences Act 2003 was being debated and it was proposed to increase the brothel penalties to seven years, owners of gay saunas went 'Oh shit' - even though no one has been charged with running one for decades - and did some quick lobbying.

So here there's the offence of running etc a brothel and a separate offence of running etc a brothel involving prostitution...
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

lora

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #6 on: 10 August 2024, 07:34:54 pm »
Obviously I don't know much about gay Saunas but I heard the mayor of Glasgow is gay...might be why they didn't shut them down. I don't know if that's actually true.

Obviously I guess the way the police define or choose to take action against brothels is very much down to the region anywhere in the UK. I work in various parlours/Saunas/agency flats around the country and they are all working with the consent of local police. Some brothels do exploit workers and do need closing down but when it just people sharing for safety hopefully most police forces will recognise the difference. 

xw5

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,902
    • I should be updating this instead...
Re: Duos and Brothel Keeping Laws
« Reply #7 on: 10 August 2024, 09:03:35 pm »
Attitudes change quicker than laws.

There's a legal doctrine called 'laches' - 'if you unreasonably delay starting a case, you can lose because of that' is a short version - that one brothel used a few years ago to have charges thrown out. The police had known about it for years and not done anything, so it couldn't suddenly decide to do something without a very good reason.

See elsewhere here for my story about the number of brothels in one London borough vs the number the police announced that they would raid...
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."