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Author Topic: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?  (Read 4316 times)

River

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Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« on: 26 January 2011, 09:37:14 pm »
I've just read this thread which is a client field report:
http://www.saafe.info/main/index.php?topic=4446.0
It's very funny but it's got me thinking big time.

I've no experience personally of field reports, other than a little feedback on my AW profile.
This is because sites like Punternet specifically exclude transsexual female sex workers.
I'm looking more and more at using the net for advertising
and I hope this thread helps me to get forewarned/briefed,
on this one thing of which I've no direct experience
and only a very recent cursory awareness {a lot of which is due to the above thread}
This is for when/if I find trans escort friendly places, similar in structure to PN & PL, etc..
Also, I  prodded a couple of friends who do website "stuff"
They have given me {admittedly slight} interest in setting up a trans friendly place
based loosely on places like PN
If this idea of mine goes anywhere,
then I will know for sure if reviews are a good thing
or as I suspect, a very bad thing for escorts.

I would be grateful for anyone who has knowledge / experience
of this aspect of escorting, to let me have their thoughts.
I'm I spot on or wide of the mark?
Are escorts able to opt out of field reports on these sites.
Is that detrimental to their business?

Below is my perception. of reviews:
I think field reports by clients is actually a dreadful thing.
This is why.

Firstly, my session performance is an intimate thing.
The thought that it was going to be judged and a detailed summary posted
for the whole world to see
would likely result in me refusing to open the door to the arriving client!

Secondly, it's all about the balance of power...it's very unequal.
If a client has a less than brill time through nobodies fault.
Maybe we just don't gel or I'm not what he really wanted
or he had tooth ache or any of a myriad of things...
he can do an unflattering review.
He walks away, but my business has an unfair / negative review.
This can then loose me business through no fault of my own.

I get less coin despite doing a Stirling job.
Lets also say, the client was rough with me or rude
or had BO or jagged finger nails or any one of a number of niggly things
which I don't let effect the quality of my session.
Say he then leaves an unflattering review.
If a board has a feedback facility for escorts to respond to the review
or the facility to review the client,
even if I mention these things in reaction to a bad report on me,
it looks as though I'm being petty.
Even if it doesn't, the effect on the client is maybe another escort refuses to see him.
So he shrugs and starts another profile.
Completely unbalanced.

Finally my last consideration is possibly more serious.
I get to be compared on a like-for-like basis with other similar escorts.
As  you know, we are all unique
and if we are good at this job, we use those assets to our own and our clients advantage.
In reviews, I suspect those very qualities get marginalised or even more likely, totally ignored.
Then it goes to the fact that I give good head
but escort B is nice and ?50 cheaper
And does CIM or rims clients or saw him and his mate at the same time....
or whatever.

Now that would make me feel a little 'less' about my services
and might put me in the mind-set of considering offering services that I'm not comfortable doing, or things I consider unsafe.

Now I don't think I 'd be swayed on how I run my business,
my safety and health considerations.
But it would make me start to question the very things
which I consider boundaries,

And in the scheme of things,
take 100 escorts, in a review environment.
Some of them will compromise on their boundaries.
And that pushes down the "Generally accepted safety line "
Before you know it bareback anal would be the expected norm!

Anyway, I've stopped shuddering.
Am I worrying over nothing
or have I got it all wrong?

xw5

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2011, 10:29:17 pm »
You should submit that to a poetry magazine :)

I see http://sw5.info/sexworkersonly/reviews.htm is still live. Yes, they're a very very mixed blessing. The worst bit is probably that you're expected to be grateful for the system.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

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River

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #2 on: 27 January 2011, 12:21:22 am »
Ian, thank you so much.

That basically confirmed many of my thoughts.




























EmilyJones

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #3 on: 27 January 2011, 07:22:00 am »
Ugh, yes - that list is so depressingly accurate.

It misses out one new negative: The associated rise of The Reviewer, that client you can never really please because he enjoys writing nitpicky reviews much more than he enjoys the actual sex! Any booking with him feels like a weirdly pushy interview or test that you can probably never pass.

I'm pro reviews - or rather, feedback - which are limited to stating whether or not the sex worker advertises honestly and gives a good service, but I think allowing too much space for "And how many times did you make her come with your giant penis, Sir Reviewer?" brings too many fantasists out of the woodwork and risks making the whole system pointless and silly.
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Anika Mae

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #4 on: 27 January 2011, 11:02:03 am »
Um, just feel I should add that it's not all like that. My reviewers have all been of the "a gentleman wouldn't say more" type, and I've never been reviewed by someone I didn't click with. Also yes, you can opt out.

EmilyJones

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #5 on: 27 January 2011, 11:47:56 am »
Um, just feel I should add that it's not all like that. My reviewers have all been of the "a gentleman wouldn't say more" type, and I've never been reviewed by someone I didn't click with. Also yes, you can opt out.

But... lots of it is, which makes the actually useful reviews less noticeable/effective nonetheless. And your kinds of reviewers (who are the same as mine, really) would still be able to leave comprehensive feedback without even noticing that the "Please elaborate on your sexual technique" box was missing.

Opting out just makes you look really suspicious, anyway! Both clients and sex workers on AW with hidden feedback are often avoided, for example.
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amy

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #6 on: 27 January 2011, 12:44:06 pm »
Um, just feel I should add that it's not all like that. My reviewers have all been of the "a gentleman wouldn't say more" type, and I've never been reviewed by someone I didn't click with. Also yes, you can opt out.

But... lots of it is, which makes the actually useful reviews less noticeable/effective nonetheless. And your kinds of reviewers (who are the same as mine, really) would still be able to leave comprehensive feedback without even noticing that the "Please elaborate on your sexual technique" box was missing.

Opting out just makes you look really suspicious, anyway! Both clients and sex workers on AW with hidden feedback are often avoided, for example.

I agree with Anika, and would also point out that FRs are not there to make us feel all warm inside and score some handy free advertising, they are there to provide information for punters and whatever effect they have on our business is entirely secondary. I have reviews of pretty much all kinds from the fairly graphic to the 'what happened will remain private' kind, both of which are virtually useless to potential customers as far as I'm concerned. Some ladies like them and some don't.

I would never spend this sort of money without doing some proper research first, no matter what it was on. If I'm booking a hotel, restaurant or flight I look at review sites, for example and since I am offering an extremely expensive service in an unregulated industry which cannot be repaired/exchanged/taken back if it isn't right, I expect that service to be subject to scrutiny. The physical intimacy involved is a fact of the job and doesn't come into it - it's not my personal life that is being discussed but the way I conduct my business and if I was to get my knickers in a twist at a bit of porny prose I probably shouldn't be shagging strangers for a living. Even the ones that have made me flinch a bit have been well worth the ?100+ they put in my wallet.

If punters want to relive/shout from the rooftops their experience however they choose, including writing naff third-rate porno stuff (and I have to say I don't see that many of these either - most seem to fall somewhere inbetween the two) that surely that is up to them? They;ve spent enough money, and provided an FR is fair, and covers the important bits (location, pictures, services, price etc) the rest is really just window dressing anyway. Asking us what we think of FRs is like asking hoteliers whether they think Tripadvisor is any good - the people who should be answering are the customers.

I do feel that any FR system should allow for opting out, and also the right of reply (although I've never needed it), and possibly some way to make a distinction between people who are not reviewed at their own request and those who are banned for some wrongdoing.
« Last Edit: 27 January 2011, 01:01:00 pm by amy »

Anika Mae

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #7 on: 27 January 2011, 01:18:07 pm »
Opting out just makes you look really suspicious, anyway! Both clients and sex workers on AW with hidden feedback are often avoided, for example.

Not on actual review sites like PN. Unless I'm mistaken the only way someone would know if someone isn't reviewable is if they try to submit a review. AW is a different matter, I think, since it's a slightly different way of working and the feedback system is part of it. You could completely opt out by not using the booking system.

xw5

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #8 on: 27 January 2011, 05:24:15 pm »
Speaking as someone who's never had their sexual performance reviewed on a website that wants to make money off the fact...

... I think it is very mixed. I can see the PR advantages to having good ones on you. I can also see that potential clients find them reassuring and even that some clients find writing them an enjoyable additional part of the experience. I've suggested reading them, especially the 'bad' ones, to people considering starting work. They can also be hugely amusing (the now-deleted one that springs to mind is the one on PN where the guy booked someone as a treat for his girlfriend and was horrified when she enjoyed it), and there's doubtless a potential PhD or two in analysing them.

But the current system is one where the ones being reviewed have almost no power over it and instead it's in the hands of people who really do not have their best interests at heart. As well the need for an ethical agency or two, perhaps there should be an ethical review system.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

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amy

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #9 on: 27 January 2011, 07:33:04 pm »
Speaking as someone who's never had their sexual performance reviewed on a website that wants to make money off the fact...

... I think it is very mixed. I can see the PR advantages to having good ones on you. I can also see that potential clients find them reassuring and even that some clients find writing them an enjoyable additional part of the experience. I've suggested reading them, especially the 'bad' ones, to people considering starting work. They can also be hugely amusing (the now-deleted one that springs to mind is the one on PN where the guy booked someone as a treat for his girlfriend and was horrified when she enjoyed it), and there's doubtless a potential PhD or two in analysing them.

But the current system is one where the ones being reviewed have almost no power over it and instead it's in the hands of people who really do not have their best interests at heart. As well the need for an ethical agency or two, perhaps there should be an ethical review system.

I've never had my cooking reviewed on a public platform, but if I was a chef I would expect it to happen now and again  :).

I do agree about the ethics of the system, but I can't honestly see a way it could be achieved. For a review system to have any real credibility it has to be properly moderated (which is why many punters don't take AW reports that seriously unless they can be cross-referenced back a few generations), and I don't think anybody can reasonably be expected to do this for free. One easy way of covering some of the costs is to charge for listings and I suppose because a potential punter may read a review and want to find out more about or contact the (or another) lady, it makes sense to have some ads close by. There's Captain 69 which just charges everybody equally to use the site, but a disadvantage of this is that you can't read your own reviews unless you subscribe.

Either way, I think trans workers should at least have the same opportunities as the rest of us to opt in or out, cringe at the awful spelling and ever-inventive different things to call a condom and join in the argument, so I do think Jodie's friend's idea is a good one even if it can't always be fair, fun or faultless any more than the current ones can  :).

One of my favourites  ;D.

xw5

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #10 on: 27 January 2011, 08:05:57 pm »
Yeah, you've got a choice of somewhere run by someone with arbitrary rules and no appeals, somewhere you have to pay to see the porn people have written about you, somewhere few people trust, somewhere... ::)

It should be possible to say 'I'm ok with this kind of review', for example. So someone offering PSE could want 'all the squelchy details' reviews, while someone else wants 'a gentleman wouldn't say more' ones, and someone else just wants confirmation they exist and the pictures aren't fake etc.

I'm not sure if they're still up, but other favourites include the pair where one went 'she does bareback, but only with me' and a later review went 'hang on, that's what she says to me too!!!' I can see that sort providing a clue to some people, if not an actual public service.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

Winding down YourEscortSite.com

EmilyJones

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #11 on: 27 January 2011, 08:37:03 pm »
It should be possible to say 'I'm ok with this kind of review', for example. So someone offering PSE could want 'all the squelchy details' reviews, while someone else wants 'a gentleman wouldn't say more' ones, and someone else just wants confirmation they exist and the pictures aren't fake etc.

This is a great idea - best of any world, up to the individual to make the choice.

Reviews are certainly all shiny-happy-land when nothing's gone wrong, but if it does, you definitely need the right to reply. I don't think anything can be done about the fact that in our business, the reviewers are extremely powerful for anonymous voices, but you can emphasise the really important parts of reviews by making sure a, "Did they offer unsafe services?" or something box is always available to be filled in.

Also, with an escort, 1 bad review out of 10 (since it's quite rare to have hundreds) means 10% of her feedback is bad; for a restaurant, this would have to be multiple bad reviews (from trusted, proven and reliable sources - like a national bloody newspaper and/or famous foodie journalist) or even up to thousands of bad feedbacks (from grumpy anonymous randoms on the many review sites). So I don't think it's quite the same... but then again, I'm the kind of person who tips every time someone performs a service for me that I could've done myself, unless they actually insult me while they're doing it, so eh!
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amy

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #12 on: 27 January 2011, 09:30:57 pm »
So what about the significant proportion of the people reviewed who will have never heard of the FR system? I hadn't in five years of working on and off because I wasn't on the internet, and if I was working in a small local parlour, say, or for an agency which took care of all my appointments and advertising I probably still wouldn't. Why should members of the online community get an unfair advantage or special treatment?

It's hardly a level playing field as it is; I remember a while back a popular member on PN had a negative report posted (not her first) and instead of writing a rebuttal or reporting it as fake or malicious in the correct way, she started a thread on the message board to moan about it, cue predictable army of sycophants throwing up their hands in horror and lo and behold, the report disappeared. This would not have happened if the recipient of the same report had been in the earlier position and IMO was very unfair. I don't think that one bad review out of ten would really do much harm, and since people just browsing tend to read the bad ones rather than the good ones, it could bring a hell of a lot of attention.

I can't imagine that a system where the subject of review gets to have a say what it's like having any credibility whatsoever - what would be the point? Why don't we just write them ourselves and get the punters  to sign them? What I agree could be done is have a form with more prompts/tick boxes and less opportunity for free text (I can't see how 'unsafe' services would fit, since everybody's view of risk is different), but some of my barmier reviews are long and not necessarily graphic (but then I don't care if they are, because I have a huge apartment  :D).

Meg_Foster

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #13 on: 31 January 2011, 07:25:14 am »
"and there's doubtless a potential PhD or two in analysing them."

Oh my god, yes. I think this was actually already done - there's a book out there called "Sex in Cyberspace: The Men Who Pay For It."

It was published in 2007 and god, I wish I'd gotten there first!

xw5

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Re: Field reports ..............a very bad idea?
« Reply #14 on: 31 January 2011, 09:42:26 am »
(Checks..) Yes, 135 pages, hardback only, a 'how much?!?' price - this started life as someone's thesis.

Look on it as there being five more years' data now :)
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

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