SAAFE forum
General Category => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Anika Mae on 02 May 2009, 10:30:55 am
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I'm considering getting a studio flat for incalls (scary; I've never had more than a few quid a week regular work expenses), and I've been thinking about what to tell the landlord. I don't have a day job so I can't get an employment reference (although I do have accurate tax returns), and I don't want to get a reference from my current landlord since I'm not leaving. I'm thinking of saying that I've been living abroad so don't have any references but can pay three months rent upfront.
If any of you were in a situation like mine, what did you do? Also, have any of you applied for a second home discount on your council tax?
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Very interesting topic.
I considered this back at Christmas time but was unsure because of the expense.
The two lots of rent or a mortgage and a rent is not where it ends. You will have two lots of bills and also have to decorate and furnish the flat if it's crappy.
Is there a question over why you will need two properties? Will you have to declare the flat as a business? I don't even know what the law is on a property used for a business? Does that mean you have to pay higher council tax than if the flat was residential?
Given how economics are now, I would not even consider a flat at the moment. Some weeks go so slowly, I make enough to only cover my bills and such things in one property.
But how great would it be to have another place to work from so your home remains your home and you can actually see that last minute caller and not worry about getting kids out of the house or paying for/arranging a hotel room at half an hour's notice! Brilliant.
I totally see the desire to get a flat. I have the desire to get one but not this year, no way can it be done.
It's a bloody shame the law is an ass and you can not rent jointly with another working girl. Far more security, less outgoings....
If you go ahead and do this Anika, please come and tell us how you get along and what you learn along the way. It would be great to know how it all went.
If you can find a private landlord that is not too bothered on the reference front, great, there are lots about.
If you want a spoof reference, I will happily write you one. Is he going to bother to call me up here in Wales? If he does, your the best tenant I ever had! I was gutted when you left....
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I live in a house share, but even if my home was suitable I wouldn't want to combine a home and work address after the problems others have had. I've recently started using a en-suite room in someone's flat, but I require a deposit for first time clients and charge my outcall rates, so it's not busy there. When I've gone recently I've thought it was a shame I didn't have a proper place I could welcome people to, and yesterday I realised there was nothing stopping me from getting one. Dur.
I estimate that rent + bills on a studio flat would be a little over ?500/month. I'd rather not throw that away, but I can afford to do so for a few months if that's how it goes. With renting down I'm hoping I can get a three month contract and then see if it's worth staying.
The law isn't what's stopped me sharing with someone (although I'm concerned about the proposed changes), I've just never got to know anyone who's local, looking for a flat, and who I'd feel comfortable sharing with.
As for registering it as a business premises, it would be a residential property and no doubt against the terms of the contract to work there. Maybe tax-deductible, though.
I don't know if I can find a private landlord; I only saw one suitable place that wasn't advertised through an agent. Thanks for the offer a reference, that's a good idea.
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Try the back of the local paper for private landlords. Mostly, it is done on word of mouth though, perhaps you can ask about? You just never know who has a place to rent... If your offering 3 months upfront, you stand a good chance against the high volume of housing benefit claimants that are looking to rent right now. That means a wait for the cash for the landlord, you have the cash. I know who I would choose.
The risk with private landlords is the contract, you have to get one as you can not have them just show up out of the blue or have them keep a key and let themselves in when your not about.
That is rare though.
Most people, today especially, want their properties rented out without having to pay an agent to manage it for them. That's dead money.
I have noticed in our paper the volume of private flats/houses to rent has gone up slightly over the last year. But then, so has the number of people looking to rent which has pushed up the rent amount.
I am the same here, I don't know of anybody else working nearby that would want to share the rental on a flat and the women I do know of that work here, I would not want to share with frankly.
Then there is the question of what area to rent in, you have to work from a nice area and have amenities close by so you can get out and get food and such if your there all day long. Plus parking, plus the neighbours have to be watched. It's all a bloody nightmare!
Shame you didn't live closer to me as I would be up for a flat share, definitely.
I can't work any incalls till Tuesday now as it's Bank Holiday and kids are home. Plus I had a no show this afternoon which has ticked me off no end.
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Hi if you have more then 5 visitors a week you need planning premission, fire regs, and so on, you can not work from a residential area,
but as long as no one knows what you are doing and no one wants to stitch you up you would be fine, to claim tax relief you would have to put it down as a work place which would need planning, there are different rules everywhere so best ask about how things work in your area but you could get a place with someone else but work different days,
Mercedes x
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I'd rather find somewhere without paying an agency fee too, but I looked on the local paper's website (which is where I found a flat for me and my boyfriend a few years back) and there was only one. I realise I haven't exhausted my options, but it makes me think things might have changed.
I know that working on different days is an option, but it's the sharing of responsibility that concerns me. I'd want to know someone pretty well before getting into that kind of relationship.
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I agree totally.
You will want to know that any stuff you leave in the place is left alone.
That they will not pull the 'I don't have any cash' line when the bills come in and so on.
It's really difficult to find a person to flat share with on a regular flat share that you can trust nevermind a working flat.
That seems a daft law, that more than 5 visitors a week you will need planning permission and so on. How odd. If you have more than 5 friends and they all visit you a week, imagine the council saying, 'get a fire escape put in now!'
People in charge of anything these days don't seem to understand anything. That's what I find. The heath and safety regulations have gone banana's. Totally.
As you already know the whole private landlord thing, it's pointless telling you how to go about finding one! Good luck, I hope you work something out. When you least expect it, something always comes up (Ha, quite!).
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I work from home and i have a nice flat in a large annonomous block which is filled with young proffessionals as far as i can tell. I went through a letting agency and my friend who has his own business wrote me a refererence saying i worked for him. The agency also wanted 3 months bank statements which i was a bit worried about since my money goes in sporadically but they didnt ask any questions and they just wanted a fax from my friend on letterheaded paper saying that i was a good employee and made x amount a year etc. It wasnt as problematic as i thought it would be. Maybe one of your regulars could supply a reference? :)
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Same here, looking for a place for mid-next month in another city. Im just going to look into either month to month studios or efficiencies. But with the prices I seen may just have to pop for a hotel for the first few days or so
Most of the places saying 'room for rent' just wouldnt do it. I mean, they are in nice houses and all...but how would one work about having incalls in some random person's house. I would need my own space :-\
Anika..would you consider getting an efficiency thats attached to a rather large home as a room? I used to have one, which worked well for several months, but after awhile the landlord starting making 'rules' about people over. So now Im reluctant to go that route. Would you?
whoa...what the fuck is this new phenomenon going on that I've been missing out on! This is the 2nd ad in D.C. area thats advertising a roomate with benefits!
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/roo/1152028403.html
Ani...I know you wouldnt consider this, but regardless doesnt it just sounds crazy or what. You meet someone for the 1st time to rent your place, you're having sex a couple times of week? Im sorry but I have NEVER seen that work out and I've done it twice. Live with a man sex addict for a pre-determined amount of time, and before the week is over they're done with the sex and want you out. B.S. That comes close enough to boyfriend-girlfriend thing and I can imagine one or the other would be at each other's throat at some point.
To me, it seems a mixture of marriage, prostitution, roomate...just seems weird. I mean what if the other partner doesnt WANT to have sex when they do? Sorry LOL...I just had to bring that up.
LOL...and at the end he says As far as the "roomate with benefits" thing goes, it means exactly that.....we would have to be attracted to each other in a way that we could play around maybe once or twice a week.....just to relieve the stressors of every day life.....age or race doesn't really matter, this will be kind of a discreet thing anyway.
this guy needs an escort. period! stop being cheap :D Im sorry I just found this to be so hilarious
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I'm considering getting a studio flat for incalls (scary; I've never had more than a few quid a week regular work expenses), and I've been thinking about what to tell the landlord. I don't have a day job so I can't get an employment reference (although I do have accurate tax returns), and I don't want to get a reference from my current landlord since I'm not leaving. I'm thinking of saying that I've been living abroad so don't have any references but can pay three months rent upfront.
If any of you were in a situation like mine, what did you do? Also, have any of you applied for a second home discount on your council tax?
Anika, this is something I've been wanting to do for ages but I'm put off for the same reason as you, i.e. I don't have a day job so would have problems supplying a reference. I think if you say you're self-employed they may be happy to see three months bank statements to prove your earnings; whether they would want more info than this, eg. what you do, whether you have a website etc, I don't know - this is where it could get problematic. Obviously I wasn't going to tell them what I do for a living, but as I have quite good earnings going into the bank each week I'd have to make up a job of some description. Private landlords would, I imagine, not want as much info as an agency (most of them seem to want everything, including your inside leg measurement), plus I reckon a private landlord would bite your hand off if you were offering three months in advance, given the 'current climate'. That said, the agencies must be struggling to keep their head above water at the moment as they have a lot of competition out there, so maybe they would be happy to tell their client that they have a prospective tenant willing to pay three months in advance.
I think the landlord reference might be easier to get around - I was going to pretend that I have been living with my partner in their home but that we have separated/are separating, hence my need for a new place and lack of current landlord ;)
On a financial note, I do know that money paid in rent and for bills on a working flat is tax deductable, so that's one good thing! Interesting, I hadn't thought about the second home discount but I would say that would definitely be something to go for.
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I'd also chuck money at the landlord. I did the same think a few years ago with my private residence. I sold my flat back when the market was still good, I didn't have any references so I offered my landlord a few months rent in advance and he jumped at it.
As for being in breach of planning regulations, it does depend on a few things; how many people you have coming in and out of your flat (although if five is the magic number, you should be okay as I remember you saying you don't see that many during the week, correct me if I'm wrong), how much of the flat is used for work (which would be the whole flat in your case, so that might be a minor problem), keeping your head down so you don't attract any attention from neighbours and in turn piss them off enough to report you, and if you take on a maid/receptionist.
Remember, even if the landlord did find out, he couldn't evict you straight away anyway, even if you are in breach of your contract. He'd have to go through the proper channels, taking you to court etc., so you'd have the time to move out and find alternative premises.
It isn't actually against the law for a landlord to rent out to a lone escort who wishes to work from the premises. It is when it's rented out to more than one person. You could even take a chance in telling him what your purposes are, but that could lead all sorts of sticky situations, eg. asking for sexual favours in return, or putting up your rent, which he'd be within his rights to do.
If your budget can stretch to it, legally and for the sake of less hassle, you'd be better off working on your own. You wouldn't be breaking any laws and there's less of a chance of the neighbours finding out (less traffic, etc).
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Oh, I think you're right. I thought it was illegal for a landlord to allow his premises to be used for habitual prostitution, but it looks like that only applies to tenants. Weird. I think telling the truth would be more awkward than lying in this situation, though.
I'd like to have more than five visitors at least some weeks. I used to find five bookings a week exhausting but I don't any more, which is another reason for considering a permanent incall base.
I've found where the private landlords are (unless they're all secretly agencies); Gumtree. Looking for somewhere within a mile of my house limits things quite a bit, but there's no rush so I'll watch until I find the right place.
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If your calls take place 9-5 on weekdays then there's less chance of your neighbours even noticing how many visitors a week you have.
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Oh, I think you're right. I thought it was illegal for a landlord to allow his premises to be used for habitual prostitution, but it looks like that only applies to tenants. Weird. I think telling the truth would be more awkward than lying in this situation, though.
I'd like to have more than five visitors at least some weeks. I used to find five bookings a week exhausting but I don't any more, which is another reason for considering a permanent incall base.
I've found where the private landlords are (unless they're all secretly agencies); Gumtree. Looking for somewhere within a mile of my house limits things quite a bit, but there's no rush so I'll watch until I find the right place.
Yeah, I remember somebody had written to me asking about the legalities of getting her own working flat as she was new. From what I remember on the SW5 website, it's only illegal to rent to a lone escort if you're the tenant, not the landlord. So even if your landlord does find out, you could assure them that s/he wouldn't come to any grief. Then again, it does depend on the neighbours. But like I said, they can't just throw you out even if they're weren't too receptive to the idea.
Let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.
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.. it looks like that only applies to tenants. Weird. I think telling the truth would be more awkward than lying in this situation, though.
Yep, this is one of the reasons I don't say the legal situation makes sense! I wonder if it's the class / money issue coming up - the number of people owning property was rather smaller in the mid-50s than it is now.
I'd be interested in seeing a reference for the 'five people' bit, because it sounds odd to me.
The big problem with telling the truth in this situation is the risk of them either raising the rent or wanting freebies.
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I've been in the same position recently, and it was such a nightmare I eventually gave up and started looking for a flat to sublet for a couple of days a week, which happily I found really quickly.
I do think I had unusually bad luck though, so don't lose heart. I came up with a really crap cover story to explain why I was renting a flat when I had no intention of leaving my current one, and it just ended up making the potential landlords very suspicious. It was suggested by the agent, that paying 6 months up front might persuade them, but unfortunately I didn't have it.
I tried again with a second flat and, again, the landlord was suspicious, but agreed to let me take the flat. I came within a hairs breadth of signing the contract, when I found out that the landlord owned half the block, and spent most of his working days on the premises :o
I would do as much as you can to find out, as subtly as you can, who else lives in the block and how often the landlord visits the premises.
If you have an accountant, references shouldn't be too much of a problem. They will just ask you for a bank reference, and a letter from your accountant saying that he knows how much you earn, and has no reason to believe that you won't be able to make the payments. I rang the bank to ask them what their criteria are for a good reference, and they said only that you are either in credit or within your agreed overdraft limit, that you have regular payments going into your current account which would cover the rent (they don't bother to check your other outgoings, or anything like that), and that you don't have a history of going overdrawn without permission etc. That only leaves a landlords reference which shouldn't be too difficult to come up with.
If you are planning to rent a flat, rather than a house, don't forget that the landlord will probably only own the leasehold, not the freehold to the flat. That means that in legal terms, he is the tenant of the freeholder, and is committing an offense if he knowingly sublets the flat to a prostitute, even if she/he works alone.
If you are using a second flat for business purposes only, and no one is living in it, then strictly speaking you should be paying business rates rather than council tax. Obviously this would not be a good thing, so flagging yourself up by applying for a second property discount might be a bit risky. On the positive side, an accountant told me that you can claim the council tax on your work flat as an expense, with virtually no risk at all of the income tax people bothering to alert the council tax people :)
Best of luck, Anika. I hope you find somewhere really gorgeous.
P.S. If you think of a good cover story, let me know!
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I think my living abroad idea is quite good as long as you have the cash to back it up, the boyfriend one is pretty plausible too. I'm curious about your crap story though. Care to share?
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Hello Anika
You've finally drawn me in - I just HAD to give my view on this one.....
If you're sure you'll profit from a seperate working flat then you should go for it. In my experience I've found my busiest days to be the days when I've had access to a flat, lots of guys like to feel like they're "just visiting", come round, have a drink, relax, oooh and here we are in the bed room romping. "How did that happen" fantasy type thing!
I've never had my own flat, just access to one at times, but have certainly thought my own would be just perfect...clean, tidy, all my outfits and lingerie in a seperate wardrobe, good supply of clean towels, spanking paddle hidden under the grill, condoms to hand from under a vase, cussion, candle. The potential is endless.
My pre prepared big fat lie for the landlord goes something like this....
I've just seperated from my husband and have to rent somewhere quickly as I'm staying with my sister at the moment ( her husband,
4 kids, 3 cats blah blah nightmare) Damsel in distress senario.
Also I'm working as a freelance physiotherapist/speach therapist/psychologist - this would also explain regular visitors.
Why tell them it's a second place? - keep quiet about the fact you'll be living elsewhere - the money you'd save by telling the council tax office that it's a second home will be far outweighed by the amount you'll make from having an incall facility.
You definately need to produce at least 3 months rent up front. After you've produced cash most landlords don't give a monkeys what you do in there as long as you keep the place nice and don't disturb the neighbours. What they don't know.... Try to find someone who has lots of properties who is too busy running their mini empire to worry about who you are and what you do. A flat with a multiple entry door is also worth looking out for so curtain twitchers just think it's a busy block rather than seeing lots of "guests" going to one door. I don't know what your location is like but where I am you only need to drive half a mile in any direction and there's blocks every where ALL with TO LET signs up. You don't loose anything by asking even the dreaded agents to put the idea of cash up front to the land lord.
If in doubt about the extra booking numbers do the hotel thing as a trial. x
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Hi if you have more then 5 visitors a week you need planning premission, fire regs, and so on, you can not work from a residential area,
but as long as no one knows what you are doing and no one wants to stitch you up you would be fine, to claim tax relief you would have to put it down as a work place which would need planning, there are different rules everywhere so best ask about how things work in your area but you could get a place with someone else but work different days,
Mercedes x
Mercedes, I have searched high and low and cannot find anything to substantiate your '5 visitors' figure. Planning permission/fire regulations and business rates etc only apply if the property's primary use is for business, which would be incredibly hard to prove on an ostensibly 'normal' looking flat (and this goes down to individual rooms within a house/flat as well - a spare bedroom used for work will probably be OK but a purpose-built dungeon harder to get away with). How would it be possible to limit the number of visitors someone has to their home? I would really appreciate it if you would post a link to where you got this information.
There is some other useful stuff on working from home here (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.l1=1073858799&r.l3=1073960216&r.lc=en&r.t=RESOURCES&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073791627&r.i=1073791626&r.l2=1073859248&r.s=sc).
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I think my living abroad idea is quite good as long as you have the cash to back it up, the boyfriend one is pretty plausible too. I'm curious about your crap story though. Care to share?
Oh yes! I'd forgotten about that by the time I'd read to the end of the thread. That probably would work. I might use that one next time.
My crap story was that me and a couple of friends were going to share it as a London pied a terre. For the sake of convenience, i would be the one on the contract, and they would pay their share to me. I had two friends from my home town who were willing to go along with it. As I'm well into my thirties I thought they'd be unlikely to worry about me having wild parties, and they didn't seem concerned about that. In the end I think what made them suspicious is that it would work out much cheaper if we booked hotel rooms while in London, and they couldn't believe anyone could actually be so crap with money as to think this was a cost effective plan.
I does seem to be true that the money up front thing makes a huge difference. I spoke to someone the other day who ended up paying a year's rent up front. It got her the flat she wanted, and she's been there for years now. All the Landlord is really concerned about is that he gets his money each month, and of course he does.
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I spoke to someone the other day who ended up paying a year's rent up front.
damn...lucky fucker. See, in the states we dont do that cos then landlords get lazy and dont want to do maintenance once they get their money :(
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If you are planning to rent a flat, rather than a house, don't forget that the landlord will probably only own the leasehold, not the freehold to the flat. That means that in legal terms, he is the tenant of the freeholder, and is committing an offense if he knowingly sublets the flat to a prostitute, even if she/he works alone.
Are you sure about this? I would have thought that the owner is the Leaseholder and that gives him/her same rights as any other Landlord regardless of who owns the Freehold.
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Also I'm working as a freelance physiotherapist/speach therapist/psychologist - this would also explain regular visitors.
That's a great cover story!
But for a young girl in her early 20's it may sound a bit suspicious.. any other ideas for an occupation that warrants regular visitors to a residential place?
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Are you sure about this? I would have thought that the owner is the Leaseholder and that gives him/her same rights as any other Landlord regardless of who owns the Freehold.
One of the sillier bits of sex work law says that 'tenants and other occupiers' cannot allow habitual prostitution there, even if it's someone working legally. I suspect a leaseholder does count as a tenant, but it needs someone who knows more about property law than I do.
(Ah, it gets more complicated with the introduction about five years ago of 'commonhold' which is a sort of joint freehold, specifically for new developments of flats.)
In any case, in practice no-one ever gets prosecuted for it, but it does provide an excuse to evict people etc.
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But for a young girl in her early 20's it may sound a bit suspicious.. any other ideas for an occupation that warrants regular visitors to a residential place?
Trainee physio etc? Some form of complementary therapy woo? (Although that would beg the question as to why so many clients are men.)
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If you need a rock solid reference?
For a nominal fee you can get your bank manager to write you one for a small fee.
Good luck, babe :D
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Also watch out for leasehold blocks that have an owners 'Committee'. I've fallen foul of this one and if any of them gets suspicious they can gang up on you. I'm aware of woman in another area to whom this happened - and she owns the flat!
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Hiya,
I know I'm very late coming in on this one but thought I'd let you know that a landlord can evict you by giving 2 months notice, so giving 3 months rent up front should be considered carefully.
Good luck with the flat hunting, great idea so long as you cover your little ass!
Love Alex x
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after the two months evicition notice he will then have to go to court to evict you.
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Hiya,
I know I'm very late coming in on this one but thought I'd let you know that a landlord can evict you by giving 2 months notice, so giving 3 months rent up front should be considered carefully.
Good luck with the flat hunting, great idea so long as you cover your little ass!
Love Alex x
A landlord/lady can give you as much notice as s/he likes, as Oriental lady says, s/he still has to take proper legal proceedings to remove you from their premises.
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One time I had to get out of a flat near christmas which didn't bother me but I wanted to leave after the new year. The landlord wanted to get rid of it as there was a business andhe had sold the business, so the reason was okay. Obviously he wanted me to go fast , he was really awkward. I phoned Shelter up, the law is the landlord has to give you two months notice but you only have to give him one and then to get you out after the notice, he will have to go to court to get an eviction notice. In the end a housing officer had to tell the landlord the law, it was brilliant.
The fact that I had to go didn't bother me, 'cos I had to go anyway but I didn't want to go before the new year.
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as you often need wages slips and references in order to rent a flat this can present a problem however
there are plenty of companies who will print your wages slips along with p45 with whatever details that you require ie amount earnt tax paid gross /net ect for you - just google printed wage slips ect
http://www.mrbateman.co.uk/products.htm is one that i have used manytimes they will fax you the copies and send you the original within 24 hours of payment
with regard to references just get an extra bt line put on your regular phone line if you have a land line it rings differently and you can give your own reference or get a friend to reference you ;D ( this is what i have done in the past successfully but be aware of agencie who state if refs do not compute then you can lose your holding fee
I have taken advantage of this many times when renting a flat to work from
my advice would be to avoid agencies if poss as in my experience they are " bastards" for returning deposit even when everthing is ship shape
In the past private landlords are best i have looked for flat in decent car looking, presentable with wage slips passport driving licence and most importantly the cash I have everthing photocopied for the landlord to make his job as easy as poss give him everthing that he /she needs and make his job the landlord as easy as possibile
Cash talks and bullshit walks and i have yet to come across a private landlord who dose not get overly gready at the sign of lovely jubly cash and refuse you
i believe if you get a standard shorthold tenancy agreement then you have 6month plus 1 month before you can be evicted or asked to leave Even if they did know what was going on they would probalby prefere just to leave it to the end of the contract and not renew it rather than evicting cos this take time money and effort and the law is often in favour of the tennant
flat in big blocks are often better with entry com system and no little old dears to watch whats going on
your bank managers are good for ref ( for a fee of course) along with the landlord of your local pub as they have had to go before the court to get a licence ect if you know them of course
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Ok, so I've decided to just go for six months, that way I don't feel the need for a story. I realised that my landlord probably won't mind if I say I'm not leaving but want a reference anyway. I've mostly abandoned the studio idea since there aren't many around here.
Some flats with genuine private landlords have finally popped up in my area and I've been to view one. It's pretty tempting except it's first floor and shares an entrance with one other flat. I know a block of flats is ideal, but there's only one near here that I can think of. I dismissed the flat because of the shared entrance, but I'm wondering if I should consider it. I'm not that much of a ho, maybe it would be ok? But then it would be nice to have the chance to be flexible with how I work, and maybe also let other girls use the flat sometimes.
So anyway, I was wondering if any of you have worked from a flat like that? How was it?
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I have worked in a flat within a converted house & it had a shared entrance with one other flat. I had no problems, but I kept the traffic to a minimum, and wasn't working every day.