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Author Topic: OWO and CIM ?  (Read 17051 times)

Lucymay

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OWO and CIM ?
« on: 12 March 2010, 05:44:54 pm »
Is it normal to offer CIM if you do OWO...is the risk of CIM alot more than OWO? would i be wrong to not do CIM and still continue to do OWO?


xw5

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #1 on: 12 March 2010, 06:04:53 pm »
Yes, lots of people will do OWO but not CIM. Some people don't like the taste or see it as too intimate or..

The already tiny risk for HIV transmission via oral will be nil without CIM.

No decision you make about services will be 'wrong', if that's what you want to (not) do.

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Lena

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #2 on: 12 March 2010, 08:34:35 pm »
I agree, doing OWO doesn't imply you also do CIM. I do OWO but CIM at discretion.  I also don't swallow so I don't really mind the taste.

anonymoussw

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #3 on: 13 March 2010, 09:04:21 am »
The already tiny risk for HIV transmission via oral will be nil without CIM.

That's not strictly true. The HIV virus can be present in pre-cum, and if you combine that with any possible sores or cuts in the mouth, there is still a risk but it is very, very small...
« Last Edit: 13 March 2010, 11:39:50 am by bennyboywonder »
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
"if" - Rudyard Kipling

cassie

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #4 on: 13 March 2010, 10:53:29 pm »
I also don't swallow so I don't really mind the taste.

Since your sense of taste is in your mouth, more precisely on your tongue, keeping ejaculate in your mouth and gatherting it to spit it out or letting it go on your tongue to spit it out exposes you far more to the taste than letting it hit the back of your throat and swallow.

For the same reason I believe CIM and swallow is a slightly lesser risk than CIM and spit because of less exposure to the fluid.
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Lena

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #5 on: 13 March 2010, 11:42:37 pm »
Cassie  :o  I am all confused now...I guess there are so many CIM styles! LOL

"
letting it hit the back of your throat and swallow.
that would not be an option for me as I think I would feel suffocated. I prefer to have it on my tongue. Though I never tried to swallow it, I have a feeling that if I did I would feel the taste afterwards and this way I just wash my mouth.

About HIV, I am not so worried as I really see very few people and didn't have unprotected (coital should be the word) sex for years.

xw5

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #6 on: 14 March 2010, 12:01:31 am »
That's not strictly true. The HIV virus can be present in pre-cum, and if you combine that with any possible sores or cuts in the mouth, there is still a risk but it is very, very small...

I'm sticking with nil. With CIM, the risk is somewhere between nil and very, very tiny. Without it, I can't  find a decent study suggesting it's a risk.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

anonymoussw

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #7 on: 14 March 2010, 10:06:40 am »
Without it, I can't  find a decent study suggesting it's a risk.

The following is from a literature review done in 1998 showing that studies have found examples of transmission without ejaculation. It goes on to cite four different studies.

"Seroconversion has occurred during receptive oro-genital sex both with[16] [17] and without [18] [19] ejaculation." (p6)

Edwards, C & Carne, C (1998) "Oral sex and the transmission of viral STIs" Sexually transmitted infections 74: 6-10 (I tried to attach the PDF, but it told me that the "upload folder is full". If you have a subscription, you can access the full article here)
« Last Edit: 14 March 2010, 04:44:59 pm by bennyboywonder »
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
"if" - Rudyard Kipling

xw5

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #8 on: 14 March 2010, 06:34:55 pm »
One of the things I like about STI is that you can read the thing without paying :) and, yes, I've seen this article (and its twin on non-virals).

Those two are case reports, not studies, and the rest of the section shows the problems on relying on them: people under-report high risk behaviour. It's far more acceptable to say you caught HIV via sucking someone than to talk about your barebacking or IV drug use.

'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

anonymoussw

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Re: OWO and CIM ?
« Reply #9 on: 14 March 2010, 07:29:47 pm »
One of the things I like about STI is that you can read the thing without paying :) and, yes, I've seen this article (and its twin on non-virals).

Those two are case reports, not studies, and the rest of the section shows the problems on relying on them: people under-report high risk behaviour. It's far more acceptable to say you caught HIV via sucking someone than to talk about your barebacking or IV drug use.

Apologies - I tend to use the word studies colloquially to refer to all sources. To be fair that is a very good point, but it doesn't rule out the possibility that transmission has indeed occurred in these instances, just the validity of the sources themselves. It would be equally possible to apply this logic to CIM sources, although perhaps to a lesser degree.

Taking a slightly different tack, there seem to be sources that show (link & link - unfortunately I have only been able to read the abstracts because my university is not a subcriber to these journals, so if there is any ... y'know ... massive methodological flaws that I don't know about, then do tell me) that HIV has been found in pre-ejaculate, and it therefore seems reasonable to intuit that there is a risk along the same vein as CIM.

It should be noted however that I am a humanaties student, and so am not familiar at all with journals in this area, so apologies if I seem uninformed. I am by no means trying to appear like I am expert in the area - I am not by a long way - I am just trying to iron out my own intuitions with the accepted knowledge.
« Last Edit: 14 March 2010, 07:41:48 pm by bennyboywonder »
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
"if" - Rudyard Kipling