SAAFE forum
General Category => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: IfUSeekAmy on 27 November 2024, 04:40:21 pm
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Hello everyone, I'm a long-time lurker on here so thought it was about time I created an account and actually posted something! I'm not escorting yet, I've been a sugar baby for a few years and have spent the last few months researching/preparing to branch out into escort work.
I'd really like to avoid seeing married/cheating clients; I know this will restrict my client base somewhat but I'm fine with that as I'll be doing this for extra money, not to pay bills. Do you think this is something I should state explicitly in my advertising? Or should I include relationship status as a question on my screening/booking form? My thinking is that including it in my advertising may send the wrong message across (that I'm looking for a relationship, or that I lack discretion). Additionally, if someone really wanted to see me I'm sure they'd just lie and say they were single. Whereas including it as a question on my booking form doesn't really give anything away as to what my preference would be (I've actually heard a lot of women say they prefer married men) so I'm more likely to get an honest answer, however I'm worried that it will be a really strange question and put a lot of people off (obviously I don't mind putting married men off, but don't want to scare single men or men in open relationships off as well!).
Also worth pointing out that I don't mind that some will inevitably slip through the net whatever I end up doing, and I can live with that just fine, I just want to discourage men using me to cheat as much as I can.
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Well you can ask, but it's so unlikely you'll get truthful answers I don't see the point?
You'll probably also (rightly) be told that it's absolutely none of your business, and it isn't; prostitution isn't dating, and part of what they're paying for is not to be judged. I suspect - as you've posted - that you'll put off a lot of single punters too, in the same way as plenty won't see people who bar other punters on racist grounds, even though they wouldn't be affected by the bar themselves.
Is there a reason for wanting to know? If it's because you're concerned about being exposed to STIs from somebody who is probably having unprotected sex, then the easy way around that is by not having unprotected sex yourself :)
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Good luck ;D
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Well you can ask, but it's so unlikely you'll get truthful answers I don't see the point?
You'll probably also (rightly) be told that it's absolutely none of your business, and it isn't; prostitution isn't dating, and part of what they're paying for is not to be judged. I suspect - as you've posted - that you'll put off a lot of single punters too, in the same way as plenty won't see people who bar other punters on racist grounds, even though they wouldn't be affected by the bar themselves.
Is there a reason for wanting to know? If it's because you're concerned about being exposed to STIs from somebody who is probably having unprotected sex, then the easy way around that is by not having unprotected sex yourself :)
It's purely a personal preference, I wouldn't be comfortable having sex with someone with the knowledge that I was aiding him cheating on his partner. I could just not ask and live in blissful ignorance but I can hardly then kick out the first guy who mentions his wife/partner or wears his wedding ring to a booking...
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😂🤣 Without cheating husbands and boyfriends we'll all go broke and out of business
Those cheating men, drive the prostitution industry sadly, very few single guys don't come to see escorts as their first choice.
All I say, cheaters are welcome. 😁
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😂🤣 Without cheating husbands and boyfriends we'll all go broke and out of business
Those cheating men, drive the prostitution industry sadly, very few single guys don't come to see escorts as their first choice.
All I say, cheaters are welcome. 😁
Sadly, this! :-* :-\
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It's purely a personal preference, I wouldn't be comfortable having sex with someone with the knowledge that I was aiding him cheating on his partner. I could just not ask and live in blissful ignorance but I can hardly then kick out the first guy who mentions his wife/partner or wears his wedding ring to a booking...
But regardless of their relationship situation we don't know anybody's reasons for coming to see us or anything about their personal circumstances, and nor should we because it's irrelevant.
Are you really saying that you won't accept a perfectly pleasant punter who wants to see you just because he isn't single, no matter how crap his relationship is or how lonely and miserable he might be? Or one whose relationship may be sexless for other reasons (medical, distance, just plain not fancying each other) but is still as strong as ever in every other aspect and punting is his way of filling in the gap in the same way as getting a takeaway can if you're hungry? Some men don't want to have affairs, so they come to see us; OK, they could go without altogether but you're a long time dead :)
We can all see or not see whoever we want and this goes without saying, but do you think you have the tolerance and compassion you need to do the job? It's not all about having nice tits and a big price tag.
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Wow just wow
They will just lie and say they are single lol
Good luck your going to need it I’m afraid 😦
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But regardless of their relationship situation we don't know anybody's reasons for coming to see us or anything about their personal circumstances, and nor should we because it's irrelevant.
Are you really saying that you won't accept a perfectly pleasant punter who wants to see you just because he isn't single, no matter how crap his relationship is or how lonely and miserable he might be? Or one whose relationship may be sexless for other reasons (medical, distance, just plain not fancying each other) but is still as strong as ever in every other aspect and punting is his way of filling in the gap in the same way as getting a takeaway can if you're hungry? Some men don't want to have affairs, so they come to see us; OK, they could go without altogether but you're a long time dead :)
We can all see or not see whoever we want and this goes without saying, but do you think you have the tolerance and compassion you need to do the job? It's not all about having nice tits and a big price tag.
Interesting you mention compassion, it's the compassion and empathy I feel for their wives that forms the mental block for me engaging with married men! To put it short, I believe Relationships should be about communication and honesty, that doesn't mean I don't feel for people who find themselves in dead bedroom situations, but sneaking behind someone's back and lying is not the answer to the problem that I want to support. I'd love to have the mindset of it being none of my business (and that's a valid viewpoint, I don't judge those who hold that viewpoint) but I can't justify that for myself when I'm directly supporting someone in their act of cheating.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the ethics of seeing married men, it's not a can of worms I wanted to open truthfully😂 I'm just aware that it's not uncommon for some to choose to exclude certain clients (by age, race, ability) and so I hoped that in a similar way, I could exclude married clients. Was just looking at the most practical and tactful way of achieving this ???
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I don't think there is anything morally wrong with you wanting to only see single clients but practically it would be unworkable, most will just lie. If they are willing to lie to their wives, partners, mothers on their children, friends, colleagues and whomever else they keep it a secret from etc they'll be willing to lie to a woman they are planning on having transactional sex with. It's easy for me to say, because I'm pretty cynical about marriage and such things... but all the same, if you really want to escort, you just have to make your peace with it.
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Wow just wow
They will just lie and say they are single lol
Good luck your going to need it I’m afraid 😦
Knowing how egotistical most men are, they just move on to the next girl while bullying you by writing a fake bad review to get other as*holes to frustrate you with fake bookings
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Knowing how egotistical most men are, they just move on to the next girl while bullying you by writing a fake bad review to get other as*holes to frustrate you with fake bookings
See this is one of the reasons I'm thinking I'd be best including it in my screening/booking form? That way they don't know the specific reason that I rejected them.
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Another part of this, is that the married men are sometimes the nicer person, more attractive and more attentive than the single man, that’s why he’s married! As they say, the best ones are married or gay, I should be shamed but I prefer the older married ones, better in bed usually and respectful of my time, less likely to try to date me! Not always the case of course, this strange industry. I do respect where you’re coming from, however a lot of men do this to prevent actual cheating, it’s just no strings attached.
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Another part of this, is that the married men are sometimes the nicer person, more attractive and more attentive than the single man, that’s why he’s married! As they say, the best ones are taken or married, I should be shamed but I prefer the older married ones, better in bed usually and respectful of my time, less likely to try to date me! Not always the case of course, this strange industry. I do respect where you’re coming from, however a lot of men do this to prevent actual cheating, it’s just no strings attached.
Unfortunately although many of my clients do fall into this category, some of the most disrespectful and difficult have been older and married.
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Interesting you mention compassion, it's the compassion and empathy I feel for their wives that forms the mental block for me engaging with married men!
That's all very noble if you're talking about Tinder, but we are professional service providers. My agreement is with my customer, not members of his family who are nothing to do with me, because he's the one paying my rent, not them.
See this is one of the reasons I'm thinking I'd be best including it in my screening/booking form? That way they don't know the specific reason that I rejected them.
I'd be inclined to be honest about your views in your marketing, and then punters will know that you're judging them and avoid you so you'll rarely have to deal with having to ask them straight out. The ones who really want to shag you will lie anyway and you'll be none the wiser, then a year down the line when you're wondering why so many of the men booking you seem unpleasant and disrespectful, you'll have an idea of why.
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Bare in mind that you are more likely to get clients that get clingy, if you only see single men. Married men are typically alot easier to work with. If they don't see you, they'll just see somebody else. We aren't paid to judge people, so it honestly shouldn't matter if a client is married or not.
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So how do you plan on screening them to know if they’re not married/attached?
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Bare in mind that you are more likely to get clients that get clingy, if you only see single men. Married men are typically alot easier to work with. If they don't see you, they'll just see somebody else. We aren't paid to judge people, so it honestly shouldn't matter if a client is married or not.
That’s a very true Point the single ones defo are the ones who txt all the time and pester x
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Interesting you mention compassion, it's the compassion and empathy I feel for their wives that forms the mental block for me engaging with married men! To put it short, I believe Relationships should be about communication and honesty, that doesn't mean I don't feel for people who find themselves in dead bedroom situations, but sneaking behind someone's back and lying is not the answer to the problem that I want to support. I'd love to have the mindset of it being none of my business (and that's a valid viewpoint, I don't judge those who hold that viewpoint) but I can't justify that for myself when I'm directly supporting someone in their act of cheating.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the ethics of seeing married men, it's not a can of worms I wanted to open truthfully😂 I'm just aware that it's not uncommon for some to choose to exclude certain clients (by age, race, ability) and so I hoped that in a similar way, I could exclude married clients. Was just looking at the most practical and tactful way of achieving this ???
It isn't our responsibility to police other people's relationship fidelity for them, nor is it our place to judge our clients personal circumstances. You are free to see or not see whoever you choose, but I would seriously think about whether escorting is a good fit for you, if you can't get your head around the idea of having sex with men who are in relationships/married.
If it's a moral line in the sand for you, then this job probably isn't for you and will eat away at you over time. The men you filter out with a "no married men" rule will be the honest ones who are probably decent clients, and the ones who have no issues lying to you and are a bit lower on the integrity scale are the ones you will end up with as a client base.
A large proportion of punters are married and visit escorts to avoid the messiness of affairs - and the ones who claim to be single are often the boundary pushers who are anything but single. If your priority is not being involved in someone else's cheating over cultivating a good client base for yourself, then I really would have a good think about this before you start taking bookings. This job isn't suitable for everyone and it may be that it isn't suitable for you.
We have no right to know our clients' relationship status, just as they have no right to know ours.
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You're definitely not the first escort to want to avoid married clients, but as you can see most take a 'none of my business' attitude to what relationships they may or may not be in.
Would it help if you thought of the justification that some of them doubtless use to themselves: "it's just sex, not an affair"?
It's easier if you're offering incalls or 'hotels only' outcalls, rather than going to anyone's home.
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We as sex workers operate with alter egos to protect our identities so in effect we lie to our clients for the best reasons. They can choose to do likewise and tell us they are single when not or divorced while married etc. Asking only unattached men to pay us would not be the wisest road to straightforward and stress free bookings. There's no way of knowing if they're being honest and I am visualising a booking with a single (according to him) man who may want to discuss your unusual mindset and it just seems to me it would spoil the whole meeting.
Some men are turned on at the thought of cheating and while that may be abhorrent to many it pays our bills.
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Thank you everyone for all the replies, I'm taking them on board. I've had quite a few successful sugar arrangements over the years and most of those have been with divorced older men who don't want to jump back into a relationship. I guess I was hoping to tap into that client base, as well as disabled and neurodivergent clients (I have relevant civvie experience and see the importance of sex workers for those demographics). I know a lot of you are saying that it's none of my business, but it feels as though it is when I'd be enabling a man to cheat on his partner by offering him my services :(
I think someone asked how I'd screen for this - as I said my plan was to include a relationship status question in my booking form, as I didn't think that alone would make it too obvious to clients what the "preferred" answer would be. But maybe I'm totally wrong with that assumption.
Again I appreciate all the responses even if they aren't really what I want to hear ::)
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Mmm, it's a question that plenty of married men are not going to answer honestly because they are going to think you might use it against them later via extortion.
What's the upside ever going to be to say 'yes'?
If you are determined to try to sniff them out, you might try saying that you sometimes enjoy threesomes with regular clients, 'meeting' them as a couple somewhere. There are going to be men who say my partner might well be up for that...
But really, as someone else has said, this is another reason why having a work persona who doesn't care is a good idea.
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I know a lot of you are saying that it's none of my business, but it feels as though it is when I'd be enabling a man to cheat on his partner by offering him my services :(
I think you are perfectly entitled to your own feelings and views on the matter, even if they don't align with others; no-one can tell you that you have no moral right to only want to have sex, even transactional sex, with only single men. I think it's understandable, just basically impracticable and I think you might end up doing yourself some emotional stress by trying to take on a responsibility for something you can't feasibly control.
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I just want to add that married clients can lie to their wives (of course I would never cheat darling) so they can just as easily lie to us. In a nutshell you would never know if they have a wife or partner.
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I think you are perfectly entitled to your own feelings and views on the matter, even if they don't align with others; no-one can tell you that you have no moral right to only want to have sex, even transactional sex, with only single men. I think it's understandable, just basically impracticable and I think you might end up doing yourself some emotional stress by trying to take on a responsibility for something you can't feasibly control.
I echo this entirely
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This is not the job for you. It’s like trying to be a vegan butcher? I think maybe 10% of my clients are single. And they are usually not the most desirable clients also.
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I echo this entirely
So do I.
If you were a paramedic, would you be fine to treat and potentially save the lives of drunk drivers, murderers and others who had done things or held views you find abhorrent, despite that being your job? Or if you were a prison officer, where your job would be to protect and ensure the safety, care and dignity of people who may have committed horrific crimes?
I believe I could now (although maybe not when I was younger), but I can completely understand why other people wouldn't want to. And that's why not everybody is cut out to be a paramedic or a prison officer (or a prostitute, or a teacher, or a care worker, and so on), and why nobody would think less of them because of it :)
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So do I.
If you were a paramedic, would you be fine to treat and potentially save the lives of drunk drivers, murderers and others who had done things or held views you find abhorrent, despite that being your job? Or if you were a prison officer, where your job would be to protect and ensure the safety, care and dignity of people who may have committed horrific crimes?
For argument's sake, being a sex worker providing services to a cheater is different from these examples, because in doing so the sex worker would be enabling the very behaviour that she finds abhorrent. The best fitting example I can think of would be a bar tender providing alcohol to someone who they know intends to drive themselves home afterwards.
Now obviously, I know by not providing services to men who cheat, I won't be stopping them cheating, because there'll just go and use another provider to do that. But at least I wouldn't be the one enabling that behaviour.
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But at least I wouldn't be the one enabling that behaviour.
Yes, the behaviour is going to happen anyway and has likely happened many times previously. I doubt any punters' partner cares much who it happened with (if he/she cares at all).
What I was referring to more is the effect on you that the other posters have referred to, because you will never know whether you're 'enabling' the behaviour you disapprove of so much, and nine times out of ten you probably will be.
Even in a parallel universe where it was any of your business and where punters were falling over themselves to provide you with their sensitive personal information, there isn't any way I'm aware of for someone to prove they're not married (and certainly none to prove that they are/are not just in a relationship of some sort without any legal status).
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IMO this is not the right job for you
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IMO, the best way to work is "don't ask, don't tell". I don't ask them anything that isn't important to book, and don't tell them anything that isn't important to the booking. If they ask if I'm single, I just say "I don't like discussing my personal life".
I will say though, I approximate that 80% of my bookings are married men, with some telling me, some having her as their WhatsApp or lock screen pic, some wear rings etc. These tend to either be the best/most respectful in bed, or efficient in-out-gone style. I have personally found that most of the single men are either unhygienic, clingy, or try to push timings or boundaries. I have lost count on how many middle aged single men have asked if I'd date them.
But like I mentioned, don't ask, don't tell and you'd likely never know. If you do find out, finish the booking and don't allow them to rebook you.
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You compare it to blocking people based on age or race but these are not things you can easily lie about. How will you know if they are single or not....obviously they could just lie. Even with your sugaring arrangements how do you really know if they are single?
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I somewhat abid with the rule, it’s tricky though and undoubtedly you will never be able to stick to the standard unfortunately as, like most ladies have informed, men fucking lie!!! Haha, but you have to take it with a pinch of salt and get on with it. If they inform me through messages in their lapse of integrate towards their spouse I immediately decline, but a lot of course show up with their wedding rind on and as much as I dislike these appointments, the cloak of shadow is already on and you can not point out a wedding ring within an appointment. If a client starts talking about their spouse within an appointment which I have had many times with them going into detail and iv even been shown sex videos on their phone, I will happily smile along until they’re out of the door and if they even want to see me again I will decline with the reason why. It’s a soft spot but you can make it work as long as you know throughout your moral compass, you will definitely be sleeping with married men but blindly unaware. And that’s how I save whatever moral compass I have left lol
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Even with your sugaring arrangements how do you really know if they are single?
Theoretically I do not, although they'd have to have quite a skill in deceit and weaving a web of lies, since they often complain to me about their exes and our meetings are often dictated by their predictable and routine child custody arrangements. I've also seen their houses.
I did actually have one arrangement that I suspect may have been lying to me about his supposed divorce. We saw each other three times before I broke it off, but he never invited me to his house despite us living in the same city, he was rather vague when I asked him about his child custody arrangements, and he never once mentioned his ex (very unusual in my experience). I broke it off because the third time we saw each other, it took him 5 days to send me the money, which in hindsight I suspect may have been another sign that he was deceitful. I don't feel upset at the idea that I potentially slept with a married man, because at the time I was none the wiser.
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If anyone can afford to turn down married clients for moral reasons then they are very privileged and obviously sex work is not their main source of income. Not everyone can afford to have a moral compass. I don't even look at their wedding finger. It would never even cross my mind. Some want to explain why they are "cheating" on their wife. I tell them politely that I really don't care and they are not obligated to explain themselves.
You won't be successful in this industry if you are not comfortable servicing clients who are not single. And you are SERVICING them!! Not making love or facilitating infidelity. If you can't tell the difference your in the wrong job.
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don't ask, don't tell and you'd likely never know. If you do find out, finish the booking and don't allow them to rebook you.
I somewhat abid with the rule, it’s tricky though and undoubtedly you will never be able to stick to the standard unfortunately as, like most ladies have informed, men fucking lie!!!
This approach may be the only answer, alongside making myself more appealing to the single man and less appealing to the married man, for example with when I offer appointments etc. It's very much the knowing that they're cheating that would bother me as it would make me feel complicit in the act. It's true what they say, ignorance is bliss 😂
[giant unnecessary quote redacted]
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I don't even look at their wedding finger. It would never even cross my mind.
Nor mine. Apart from anything else, plenty of married men (and women) don't wear a wedding ring, and plenty of widowers (and widows) do :)
I'm pretty sure that everyone here has a moral compass, though. What we don't generally do is try to impose it on other people.
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If anyone can afford to turn down married clients for moral reasons then they are very privileged and obviously sex work is not their main source of income. Not everyone can afford to have a moral compass.
Absolutely, like I said I have a full time civvie job so don't rely on sw to pay my bills, so in this instance I can afford to have a boundary such as this. But I'd like to make clear that just because I feel a certain way morally about something, doesn't mean to suggest that I look disapprovingly on or judge anyone else who views things differently or does things differently :)
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But I'd like to make clear that just because I feel a certain way morally about something, doesn't mean to suggest that I look disapprovingly on or judge anyone else who views things differently or does things differently :)
Phew! That's a relief.
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Phew! That's a relief.
Lol I know no-one should care what I think🤣 I thought I picked up a slightly defensive tone from a few of the comments, could be wrong! So just felt the need to clarify I wasn't attacking anyone!
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If we, escorts, stop giving sex to married men, it won't stop them from cheating. They will just go and have an affair.
And I think it's better if they come to us, pay, have sex and go home happily, rather than find a woman, develop feelings for her, and leave their wife.
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I’m still curious about the screening process
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60% of our client based are married or in long-term relationships. If you try and ban everyone who is cheating, then you will be broke. Oh well......more cheaters for the rest of us 🤣 😂
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I think the reality is that screening out married men is unworkable.
Giving them a question sheet to fill out just isn't going to work - not if you are offering in-calls. I guess it might work OK if you are doing outcalls.
I do screen out younger men.
HOW?
Firstly, all my marketing is towards older men and says I don't see young men (I do not explain why). I don't put negative stuff in my advertising; I emphasize the positive - why I'm perfect for the older man and not younger guys.
And I is almost always possibly to tell when someone under the age of 30 makes contact - it is the distinctive and strange way they communicate.
I would suggest if you try it, then do this - really "sell" your service as being for single men and not married ones.
Have your website profiles emphasising who you DO and Don't want to see.
Nevertheless, there are guys who just don't read stuff and will send back-and-forth messages (actually, as soon as you get this, then 9 times out of 10, they aren't going to book - the ones who do book and turn up have read your profile and think you are a perfect fit and just make a booking without asking nonsense questions that are already on your profile).
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60% of our client based are married or in long-term relationships.
That's interesting - what's the source of this figure? I'd be keen to know how how the researchers chose who to ask and how they knew they were telling the truth?
Lol I know no-one should care what I think🤣 I thought I picked up a slightly defensive tone from a few of the comments, could be wrong! So just felt the need to clarify I wasn't attacking anyone!
I don't think anyone's been defensive, just a bit frustrated by the sheer futility and hypocrisy of it? Because if you really, truly cared that much about not having sex with someone else's partner without their knowledge and agreement, you wouldn't take the risk at all, paid or unpaid.
What you're saying is that you just want them to do a convincing enough job of kidding you on to make you feel better before you go ahead anyway, regardless of the facts. Which is great because that's exactly what we're paid for, but why not just own it like the rest of us?
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If you want to reduce the number of married clients, choose outcalls.
Most married people will want incalls.
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When I was escorting, my outcall work considered largely of married business men, mainly at airport hotels.
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I don't think anyone's been defensive, just a bit frustrated by the sheer futility and hypocrisy of it? Because if you really, truly cared that much about not having sex with someone else's partner without their knowledge and agreement, you wouldn't take the risk at all, paid or unpaid.
I disagree, it's fine to want to mitigate the risk of something happening, while still accepting that it may still happen. Isn't that what we do when we screen clients? We know there's a chance we could get an unpleasant client, but we try to mitigate the risk as much as possible. This whole thread was just supposed to be about how I can best mitigate the risk of providing service to married clients.
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I think this thread ought to be locked.
It just isn't possible to filter men out with partners, for reasons that have already been mentioned.
If men with partners can't be accepted then it doesn't make for a very successful income stream in my opinion.
Something like camming or content creation might be a better option.
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I think this thread ought to be locked.
It just isn't possible to filter men out with partners, for reasons that have already been mentioned.
If men with partners can't be accepted then it doesn't make for a very successful income stream in my opinion.
Something like camming or content creation might be a better option.
Some could say they've just finished their relationship, or haven't yet had sex with their new partner, or claim their partner knows is supportive.
If written in adverts I suspect many will just lie. Might however stop the 'I'm married so I'm clean' or 'I'm married I can't pay a deposit' - regards the latter I've found ability to pay deposits and even pay entire booking fee electronically is not necessary related to relationship status.
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I think this thread ought to be locked.
I agree, I've had some really helpful feedback, and I don't want the thread to turn into a moral discussion, so maybe locking it before it heads that way might be a good idea😂
I hear all the comments telling me that my ideas basically wouldn't work, and I've had some really good suggestions for more realistic alternatives/compromises to my original ideas. It seems the best I can hope for is to craft my marketing, availability etc. in a way that attracts single clients, and to not continue seeing any clients if I find out they aren't single.
So lots of food for thought in this thread, thank you to all who contributed :)