SAAFE forum
General Category => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Alex Oak on 15 January 2021, 05:20:05 pm
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So I had a client last night. He texted me on the way apologising, explaining he'd forgotten to bring cash, and asking if I knew where the nearest ATM was. I said "I accept bank transfer and paypal if that's any help". He said it did.
When he go there, he sorted out payment to my PayPal. We did the deed, then he left. Shortly after he left, I looked at my PayPal account and realised the payment had been put "on hold" - which meant I wouldn't get it for another 21 days. Worth noting that this is definitely a problem at my end, not his - he definitely tried to pay in good faith. But I wasn't going to wait 21 days to be paid so I texted the client back and asked him if I refund it on PayPal, will he send it by bank transfer instead; bit of a risk, but it had been a good booking and I got the impression he'd want to see me again, so I saw no reason why he'd want to skip out on paying me.
He agreed to this, but explained that "Because Coutts are crap, it will sometimes take up to 24 hours". When I gave him my bank details he asked for my real name (normally banking apps object to false names being used but allow you to override this; when I said this he said "I refer you to Coutts are crap") and then sent a screenshot of what looked like the "Confirm or cancel" screen of a faster payment being set up.
The following morning I still had no money, so I text him and indicated that his payment has not shown up yet and "did you say it can take up to 24 hours?". He responded with "I did yeah. I'll ring them when they open".
It's now about 21 hours since he supposedly put the payment through and I've still not been paid for the booking and I'm starting to get a little upset because I provided a damn good service and I've not been paid for it. However; you'd have thought if he intended not to pay, he'd just block me and not keep responding. Couple of questions:
- I'm aware that Coutts is a bank for rich people and as such things might be a little bit different to the way they work for us mortals. Have people experienced this "It may take up to 24 hours" thing. He said "Because they are Coutts and minor transactions and payments are usually done by the staff"
- If the worst happens and he really doesn't pay me, do I have any legal recourse to get my money? I'm not embarrassed about going to the police or even small claims if I think they will take me seriously. I think I have his full name and address from that aborted PayPal transaction.
- What would you folks do in this situation given that he's still responding politely to me?
It's not the end of the world, but I am kind of pissed off by this. With hindsight, I should have just waited the 21 days, and not used PayPal again.
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Many fraudsters keep the game going pretending they will pay they get off on it.
I do know a couple of others taken fraud to police for certain similar reasons where they have a habbit of conning but bare in mind payment for the act of sex is not usually enforceable as a contract.
Plus paypal you cannot use for sex payments so he could have got that charged back.
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Sorry this happened to you.
Coutts are not 'crap', and given the funds that a person has to have in order to bank with them, their customer service is exemplary. I know for a fact that you can get in touch with someone at Coutts 24/7.
I am certain that he did not forget to bring cash, he deliberately chose not to bring cash as he intended to scam you. I have no doubt that he probably cancelled the transaction on Paypal the minute you left. He is playing nice because he can, and I suspect he will disappear into the ether at some point very soon.
And remember, if he really wanted to, he could just send you another payment by Paypal.
A harsh lesson for you to learn, but if a client doesn't have cash to pay you, leave before you've even taken your coat off.
Be sure to make a note of only accepting cash on your advertising.
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Coutts are not crap, and given the funds that a person has to have in order to bank with them, their customer service is exemplary. I know for a fact that you can get in touch with someone at Coutts 24/7.
I am certain that he did not forget to bring cash, he deliberately chose not to bring cash as he intended to scam you. I have no doubt that he probably the transaction on Paypal the minute you left. He is playing nice because he can, and I suspect he will disappear into the ether at some point very soon.
And remember, if he really wanted to, he could just send you another payment by Paypal.
A harsh lesson for you to learn, but if a client doesn't have cash to pay you, leave before you've even taken your coat off.
Be sure to make a note of this on your advertising.
Some of your assumptions here are not correct. As I said, the paypal problem is definitely at my end, not his. The transaction was not revoked/refunded or whatever, I got an email about my account telling me that all transactions going into my account would be put on hold because I was a "new seller" and that I needed to basically be a good seller (paraphrasing) for 90 days before they would revoke that restriction.
So just to repeat, I believe he tried to pay in good faith.
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PS. Alex, I really hope I am wrong about this and the money does appear! Fingers crossed.
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Me too :FF
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Some of your assumptions here are not correct. As I said, the paypal problem is definitely at my end, not his. The transaction was not revoked/refunded or whatever, I got an email about my account telling me that all transactions going into my account would be put on hold because I was a "new seller" and that I needed to basically be a good seller (paraphrasing) for 90 days before they would revoke that restriction.
So just to repeat, I believe he tried to pay in good faith.
Yes, I see that now, I read your message in haste, so I apologise for misconstruing what you had written. But I do know how Coutts works as I used to deal with them a lot during the course of my regular working life a few years ago.
As I said in my PS post, I hope I am wrong and it is just a glitch. But, personally, given how many do scam with Paypal and bank transfers, it is worth sticking to cash. Also, as English Green pointed out, Paypal do not process payments for sexual services and will close you account should they find out how you are earning your money. Be careful.
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Paypal do not process payments for sexual services and will close you account should they find out how you are earning your money. Be careful.
Noted. I'll stop accepting payments via PayPal from today.
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I am certain that he did not forget to bring cash, he deliberately chose not to bring cash as he intended to scam you. I have no doubt that he probably the transaction on Paypal the minute you left.
I was thinking the same thing, paying you was not really on his top ten things on his list. No you have no legal recourse to take that money back. Politely tell him that you would need that money in your account the next three days. Wait three days. If money is there lesson learnt not to use pay pal or bank transfer. If money is not there let him know that if money is not there in another three days you have his name and address and will go to the police and after put his details on on sex industry forums just to warn other escorts about him not paying. Watch how fast that money coms rollin' in.
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OMG, my typos are appalling :FF
I must not read this forum or reply when I am not wearing my contacts. Apologies people!
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Put it this way a lot of people do know you can't use paypal for sex services even non SW i know but lets see if he gets you the money which is a big if but he does not the chances are very high that even if you did not have restrictions on your account he ptobably would have done a charge back.
If he does not pay you i would imagine would be less hassle for you to contact all gay male escorts in your region or county to warn them as cannot imagine there being as many gay men escorts compared to women escorts so least you can try to stop others being conned. But give it 2 days to be fully sure.
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My mate is with Coutts and as others have said it's an excellent service. So I think he's talking poo and saw his chance to cheat you once you suggested the swap round. I agree avoid Paypal for SW.
But he's got another 60-90 mins to prove he's honest... :)
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So just after I posted this I sent him a text saying "hi (name) did you call them?"
him: Yup next time the batch process runs is somewhere between 18:00 and 20:00 (UK time)
him: Next time won't be an issue as you will be set up as a regular payer
me: hahaha thanks (name)
me: I'm sorry to hassle you
me: great x
him: Not a problem mate... if you were. restaurant then not being paid there an then is an issue
Yes, I'm being too nice to him. But if he is genuinely trying to pay and being crap, I don't want to scare him off before I have my money. I'll be less nice if the above doesn't happen.
But if he is conning me, the above seems rather overly elaborate.
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If he planned to not pay it's deception, he is a fraud. He would not have had sex with him without thinking he would pay. But you live and learn. This happens a lot in the sex industry.
Plenty of threads on here about loads of escorts being conned. It's very rare that they pay up in the end occasionly it happens.
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And bizarre off topic bit removed :).
Alex, if the problem is definitely on your side is there anything in your account that could link it to sex work - an email address, say? PayPal are very clear when it comes to prostitution and even if they haven't twigged now, when they do they will freeze your account and take the money back, whether you've taken it out or not.
Back to the first rule of sex work: Get The Money First
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Always see the money in your account, received not pending on your app or your banking.
Screen shots do not count.
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For someone who said they’ve been in business before Alex you seem to be coming across as a bit naive in your last few posts?
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For someone who said they%u2019ve been in business before Alex you seem to be coming across as a bit naive in your last few posts?
I mean yeah. But it was more than ten years ago, and I was young and stupid then.
Now I'm old and stupid...
Anyway. I realise I was naive.
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Ok, if anyone was wondering... not the money has not come through :(
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I'm sorry this has happened to you. It seems like he paid via PayPal and when he saw a chance to not pay after receiving the money back from paypal he did you over, maybe more of an opportunistic scam than a planned one? But still a shitty thing to do.
I never accept PayPal for this reason; if I were you is I'd look on this as a lesson learnt the hard way; if he hasn't paid you now I doubt he ever will.
As a last resort you could ask him to send via PayPal again (he has done so already before so no reason for it not to work) and there may be a small chance that it goes through, doesn't get stopped or cancelled by him or PayPal (although I'm afraid I can't see it happening judging on what you've said)
Good luck x
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I mean yeah. But it was more than ten years ago, and I was young and stupid then.
Now I'm old and stupid...
Alex I'm well older than you, I've been working for almost twenty years, and I still fuck things up. I'm quite sure anybody who says they never make a mistake is either lying or too dumb to notice they have, but either way that's surely part of why we're all here :).
It's a slightly trite answer, but you're safe and unharmed, and you'll never fall for that one again. Consider the money you missed out on the fee you paid for an important lesson and forget about it.
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Alex I'm well older than you, I've been working for almost twenty years, and I still fuck things up. I'm quite sure anybody who says they never make a mistake is either lying or too dumb to notice they have, but either way that's surely part of why we're all here :).
It's a slightly trite answer, but you're safe and unharmed, and you'll never fall for that one again. Consider the money you missed out on the fee you paid for an important lesson and forget about it.
Thank you, I do. At the end of the day it isn't the end of the world, its just annoying.
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Update: just checked my account and I GOT PAID! :) :) :) :)
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Update: just checked my account and I GOT PAID! :) :) :) :)
Thank goodness, I am so relieved for you!
But in future, do not put yourself through this - ONLY ACCEPT CASH
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Update: just checked my account and I GOT PAID! :) :) :) :)
Hurrah so pleased for you, but best avoiding the stress in future!
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But in future, do not put yourself through this - ONLY ACCEPT CASH
Hurrah so pleased for you, but best avoiding the stress in future!
Don't worry ladies, lesson has been well and truly learned...
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Really glad it came through!
Definitely drop Paypal as an option. I give clients 2 options if they don't want to pay cash. I offer bank transfer, but the money must show in my account before I get naked. I give them my real name for the transfer - I'm out to everyone so it doesn't matter, but it does reduce the chances of them doing a successful chargeback. The other option is for them to send me an Amazon voucher via email (I shop so much on Amazon that this is basically the equivalent of cash to me!) Again the voucher needs to be in my email before we start. If they have an existing Amazon account then it's usually within 5 mins. If they've made a new account to do this, it could take some hours as Amazon do anti-fraud checks.
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Ok, PayPal is definitely
are very clear when it comes to prostitution and even if they haven't twigged now, when they do they will freeze your account and take the money back, whether you've taken it out or not.
What do you mean "whether you've taken it out or not"? I guess that means they will put me into a negative balance and then chase me for it?
I guess the best thing for me to do here would be to close that PayPal account entirely to reduce the risk of that happening.
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Really glad it came through!
Definitely drop Paypal as an option. I give clients 2 options if they don't want to pay cash. I offer bank transfer, but the money must show in my account before I get naked. I give them my real name for the transfer - I'm out to everyone so it doesn't matter, but it does reduce the chances of them doing a successful chargeback. The other option is for them to send me an Amazon voucher via email (I shop so much on Amazon that this is basically the equivalent of cash to me!) Again the voucher needs to be in my email before we start. If they have an existing Amazon account then it's usually within 5 mins. If they've made a new account to do this, it could take some hours as Amazon do anti-fraud checks.
Ok. PayPal is definitely out from now. I was thinking of getting a card reader as well as you can get some pretty cheap ones these days. Is that plausible or do payment processors not allow what we do?
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Alex just insist on cash only or amazon voucher for a deposit.
Most places do not allow sex being sold as a business so you will be in breach and clients many times will report you to get there money back.
By the way you were one of the lucky ones that actually got paid in the end by a small percentage of clients that came through in the end.
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Great he paid I was rooting for ya!
Many of the payment providers have 'morality clauses' in the small print as I recall from complaints of SW in the past.
You can use them but when there's a dispute you'll need to fess up to the service provided and they may simply close your account and confiscate money as with PP's policy. Depends how you access the risk of a few chargebacks once in a blue moon say.
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Is it bad that I always insist on cash?
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Is it bad that I always insist on cash?
Not at all. You are probably smarter than all of us...
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Not at all. You are probably smarter than all of us...
Oh I doubt that ;D
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Not at all. You are probably smarter than all of us...
Don't include me in that haha. I insist on cash no matter what and i mention it twice on the phone plus on all adverts. Anyone trying to pay with other methods when they see me i know are scamers.
I went to a outcall once with this guy who i told cash on phone he said no prob when i arrived within 1 minute i said lets sort the cash he went sure have you got your bank details. Basically i said you know it's cash he kept saying all escorts i had out nobody has had a problem your the only one refusing. I sat myself down and refused to go anywhere no matter how much pleading he did.
Eventually he knew i was going no where without payment so he had no choice but to go to cash point. He tried everything showing me he has lots of cash in bank on his phone screen.
I believe he was going to scam me. The appointment was a nightmare he kept asking for bareback until i got nasty and threatened to leave, i left early anyway because of his behavior and time taking out of the faffing around him saying 50% of escorts offer bareback and i am clean got tested last month etc then his drug dealer was on the phone while in the middle of it and this was 1pm in the afternoon.
Nothing worse then driving to an outcall and have someine try this crap on.
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Glad you got paid, Alex.
One more thing to be aware of is that it's always best to redeem Amazon gift cards as soon as you get the code, as they can still be refunded to the buyer otherwise. I think they are valid for 10 years so you (obviously) don't need to actually spend it straight away!
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Don't include me in that haha. I insist on cash no matter what and i mention it twice on the phone plus on all adverts. Anyone trying to pay with other methods when they see me i know are scamers.
I went to a outcall once with this guy who i told cash on phone he said no prob when i arrived within 1 minute i said lets sort the cash he went sure have you got your bank details. Basically i said you know it's cash he kept saying all escorts i had out nobody has had a problem your the only one refusing. I sat myself down and refused to go anywhere no matter how much pleading he did.
Eventually he knew i was going no where without payment so he had no choice but to go to cash point. He tried everything showing me he has lots of cash in bank on his phone screen.
I believe he was going to scam me. The appointment was a nightmare he kept asking for bareback until i got nasty and threatened to leave, i left early anyway because of his behavior and time taking out of the faffing around him saying 50% of escorts offer bareback and i am clean got tested last month etc then his drug dealer was on the phone while in the middle of it and this was 1pm in the afternoon.
Nothing worse then driving to an outcall and have someine try this crap on.
It's awful when there's push after push, more and more. I always hope it's only the one 'try', then when it's numerous things. Never quite sure why someone would just carry on pushing, all it does is alienate and make me want to get out of there - not to mention cement the first impression.
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Don't include me in that haha. I insist on cash no matter what and i mention it twice on the phone plus on all adverts. Anyone trying to pay with other methods when they see me i know are scamers.
Me too cash only!!!! I learnt in a very stressful way but got my money and more in the end.
My first month when i started out 2 years ago ....an out call but he came to get me, 20mins into the journey i ask for my money and he says sure you take bank transfers dont you ?
I was fuming and said no i do not and you know it, he said okay i have cash at home.
Got to his house and he did this long winded oh where is the money now .... and came up with half my rate , so i said i'll give you half the service then .....he then suggested he pays other half by bank transfer and handed me the phone to talk to the "bank " and give my details myself :FF
Stupidly i spoke to some lady and gave my bank details.....waited 10mins and no money...... I say lets just get this over and done with for half the time .... he said okay he wants a blow job only in the dark and did NOT want eye contact ,i was like fine ........I didnt realise he had taken note that i got my bank card out of my phone wallet to give details to bank and while i had my "eyes down" in the semi darkness with loud music in background he was going through my bag and phone and taken my bank card.
when his half time was over , i checked my app and still no money, so i asked that he drops me home. Just as we leave his place he takes a "call" and has to go home so will drop me off at a cab office and will pay the fare as he has account with cab office. I get in the cab and ask cab driver to stop at petrol station to get a drink .... take out my phone and no bank card !!! :o.......i call him and ask him where my card is , he goes i dont know what you mean .....i call the bank report my card stolen and ask the cab to take me back to his place .... this is now 2am and i tell him i am on my way to his place , he threatens me not to come as his sister is back and will call the police, i tell him she needs to call the police as i was robbed.
I arrive at his place ring the bell and start banging on the door, he rushes out and throws my card out at me and tries to shut the door and i put my foot in the door and tell him i have just looked on my app and he has spent £90 on my card already and i wont leave till he pays that ....... i push my way into the home , grab the house phone and dial my number and save his home number ........i tell him he has one week to pay back what he used on my card plus £100 for the stress , pain and suffering or I will either come back to his home or call his home number when mummy, daddy or sister are home and tell them i need my cash and why ......
Glad to say i got my money back from bank as i had informed it was stolen ( the git had used my card for online gambling ::))
He also paid that back too as well as the extra 100( met him at local library ) .......Im sure the gentle reminder i texetd every night for the entire week helped with that process. :)
Didnt know about this site then or would have put his details up as a warning.
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Paypal closed my account this weekend. Luckily no money in account or they hold on to it, for I think 3 months in case of disputes.
I literally used it for a deposit here and there maybe 2 a month at most. The most annoying thing is I cannot cancel account completely for 3 months and so they now have my bank details etc for no reason and won't shut it....
After a while you realise cash is so much less of a hassle and less stress, I also use Cashapp and had no problems with them but none of them like this industry and its in the small print so nothing we can do, its just bloody annoying!
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After a while you realise cash is so much less of a hassle and less stress, I also use Cashapp and had no problems with them but none of them like this industry and its in the small print so nothing we can do, its just bloody annoying!
The reason most payment processors don't like adult stuff (and those that accept it charge higher fees) is because we are one of the highest risk transaction types for chargebacks.
1. Card holder fancies viewing some porn
2. Card holder pays for some porn
3a. Card holder has a wank, once the urge is gone decides the wank wasn't worth £10 so rings back and claims his card details were stolen and does a chargeback
3b. Card holder's wife sees the transaction on the statement, goes mental, card holder claims his card details were stolen and does a chargeback
4. Payment processor has to give the money back to the credit card company, costing them admin fees
The sheer amount of disputes means a lot of processors just decide it's not worth it. Plus for those based in the states, it leaves them legally vulnerable due to idiotic FOSTA/SESTA laws.
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Hi
Sorry to hear about your experience.
I would say when you accept other payment than cash,you put yourself on the will of other to get your money and that is not a good position. I would never trust punters even if they are regular,or you have a good vib to trust them. Bank transfer can be risky because they can make a claim to their bank to stop it. My best advice is that you open a business bank account,ask a credit card machine with pin number so once they do their code they can t reclaim it. Don't take cc on the phone as they can always stop it. Only manual pin code when they are there. Cash for me is king as when it is given you are secured unless they steal it from you.I don t bother with bank transfer or cheque as never reliable. In this business you only have yourself so don t let other abusing you even if you think they are nice or you have a good session.
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Back to the first rule of sex work: Get The Money First
I was caught out last week and underpaid by £20.
My fault, I was too busy meeting and greeting that I forgot to get it upfront ::) The guy clearly hadn't even bothered to read my profile as he didn't know my location, then asked me my name in the booking and paid with the wrong fee at the end.
By the time I remembered, we were in full swing and it would have been awkward to ask at that point.
He said he'd book again this week with the outstanding fee he owed but heard nothing yet...
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Slightly different scenario but i did a double with a female escort for a regular of mine. I let him pay by bank transfer but he was paying her cash.
We finish the booking then he gets ready to leave then she reminds him he hasn't paid her yet. All ok in the end but can see how this can easily happen.
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Cash only within 5 minutes of the booking. If there is no cash that is the end of the booking. I cannot believe that people are accepting bank transfers or Paypal. Madness!
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Cash only within 5 minutes of the booking. If there is no cash that is the end of the booking. I cannot believe that people are accepting bank transfers or Paypal. Madness!
I have occasionally accepted bank transfer at the location when the Client has decided to 'upgrade' during the booking (owo or extra time)
Everything stops the moment I am asked as we fumble around for our respective phones and complete the transaction. The Client has always already paid either deposit or full fee transfer before i leave home, so already has all the details and it takes less than a minute.
One thing I never do is give the service and trust him to pay afterwards, no matter if I have known him 10 minutes or 10 years. Ever. 8)
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I have occasionally accepted bank transfer at the location when the Client has decided to 'upgrade' during the booking (owo or extra time)
Everything stops the moment I am asked as we fumble around for our respective phones and complete the transaction. The Client has always already paid either deposit or full fee transfer before i leave home, so already has all the details and it takes less than a minute.
One thing I never do is give the service and trust him to pay afterwards, no matter if I have known him 10 minutes or 10 years. Ever. 8)
Yes I've been confronted with incorrect fees both at start and end, by new and regular clients. If I accept at the end I have to accept it may be wrong, so much easier to sort this out at the start.
Also once had someone tell me they were tipping me by paying the equivalent of a longer than booked booking, yet only gave me the exact amount for the time booking. This was fine no problem I assumed I had misheard or miscounted. He then produced the same fee for a longer second booking, because I had taken and counted upfront I was able to show him it was wrong, and that I had not been tipped as he thought the first time. It was all ok and I seem to remember he called the second booking short in recognition that I had actually also over stayed for the first time (my own choice I had stayed between the actual time and the time he thought he had tipped into).
Point of this is always best to get the money upfront, at the end can be too late (as I found out about a year ago with someone I had gone out of my way for(and he got a flea in his ear about the subsequent poor form with the cash)).
As for bank transfers with transfers I know I have it means I don't have to go to the bank, but I have to see it at my end on my gadget before I do anything and am very clear it's cash at appointment time.