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Author Topic: HPV - Help.  (Read 11376 times)

xw5

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #30 on: 18 April 2019, 10:27:33 am »
HPV also causes a fair proportion of head and neck cancers.

It doesn't - people with, say oral cancer, often have HPV but that doesn't mean that it caused the cancer.

It's much, much, much more linked with smoking and drinking, just as anal cancer is vastly more linked to being HIV+ or otherwise having a compromised immune system.

The OMG - oral/anal cancer and HPV stories started appearing just as the two drugs companies had what were then the most expensive vaccines ever to shift, and they couldn't claim they had any benefits for the majority of the adult population.

Vaccination of girls around 12: great; of boys that age: comparatively limited benefits; people aged 44 or so: there are better things to do with the money.

Anyone who smokes should certainly have stopping that as a much higher priority, similarly reducing alcohol intake.

It's your money, but the campaign to get you to spend it on this is deeply cynical.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

saltysweet

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #31 on: 18 April 2019, 10:56:06 am »
I went to a private clinic for this and was told if I was over school age it is a waste of time and money.
The doctor explained, that as an adult I'd probably been exposed to many of the 100 strains of HPV, which is a perfectly natural thing, we live with them every day.
She said having the vaccine as an adult gives no protection.
The doctor took the medication off the desk and put it back in her drawer.
« Last Edit: 18 April 2019, 11:28:35 am by saltysweet »

xw5

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #32 on: 18 April 2019, 11:27:56 am »
It varies - I didn't have sex without a condom until my mid-30s, so I would very probably have had a benefit - but the companies absolutely did trials in the hope that there would be a benefit to people who had already had HPV (ie a bigger market) and failed utterly to find any.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

jules

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #33 on: 18 April 2019, 11:40:10 am »
The hpv can be transmited with condom also.... can be transmited by genital touching...

Kay

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #34 on: 18 April 2019, 01:49:27 pm »
It doesn't - people with, say oral cancer, often have HPV but that doesn't mean that it caused the cancer.

It's much, much, much more linked with smoking and drinking, just as anal cancer is vastly more linked to being HIV+ or otherwise having a compromised immune system.

The OMG - oral/anal cancer and HPV stories started appearing just as the two drugs companies had what were then the most expensive vaccines ever to shift, and they couldn't claim they had any benefits for the majority of the adult population.

Vaccination of girls around 12: great; of boys that age: comparatively limited benefits; people aged 44 or so: there are better things to do with the money.

Anyone who smokes should certainly have stopping that as a much higher priority, similarly reducing alcohol intake.

It's your money, but the campaign to get you to spend it on this is deeply cynical.

Well, I respectfully disagree. Not saying the pharma companies aren't sometimes (often!) driven by dodgy motives, but I think HPV and H&N cancers is a genuine thing, albeit smoking and alcohol are more common causes. The good news is that HPV-associated H&N cancers are associated with a better prognosis/easier treatment than others.

This paper is from 2011 and the incidence is growing if anything (though will hopefully reverse as the immunisation effect kicks in):

Over the last decade it has become clear that human papillomavirus (HPV) not only causes genital and anal cancers, but also causes a subset of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma (HNSCC). In addition to the estimated ~492,800 cervical cancers caused worldwide by HPV each year, HPV also causes an estimated ~30,000 oropharyngeal cancers, HPV is detected in ~25% of all HNSCC (Kreimer et al., 2005), and the majority of these HPV-associated HNSCC are oropharyngeal (tonsillar and base of tongue) squamous cell cancers. In fact, HPV is now the major cause of oropharyngeal cancer in developed countries, detected in 45–90% of cases (Fig. 1) (D’Souza et al., 2007a; Kreimer et al., 2005; Nasman et al., 2009). HPV has also been detected in a smaller subset of laryngeal (24%) and oral cavity (23%) cancers (Kreimer et al., 2005). There is strong and consistent molecular evidence demonstrating that HPV is an etiological cause of these oropharyngeal cancers. HPV is detected in the tumor of these oropharyngeal cancers, where it is localized to the cell nuclei, transcriptionally active, clonal, and not found in the surrounding benign tissue (Gillison et al., 2000). Epidemiologic evidence for the role of HPV in oropharyngeal cancer is equally strong. Case–control studies consistently show that oropharyngeal cancer cases have a higher average number of lifetime sexual partners (a surrogate for oral HPV exposure) and are more likely to have current oral HPV infection than matched controls (Gillison et al., 2008a; Heck et al., 2010; Schwartz et al., 1998).
"There is no sin except stupidity" - Oscar Wilde

Escortx

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #35 on: 18 April 2019, 01:57:13 pm »
Hi I’ve had pre  cancerous cells removed am I too late for the injection?

Kay

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #36 on: 18 April 2019, 02:11:40 pm »
Hi I’ve had pre  cancerous cells removed am I too late for the injection?

No, because you could be affected by another strain.
"There is no sin except stupidity" - Oscar Wilde

Mirror

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #37 on: 18 April 2019, 02:37:57 pm »
Well, I respectfully disagree. Not saying the pharma companies aren't sometimes (often!) driven by dodgy motives, but I think HPV and H&N cancers is a genuine thing, albeit smoking and alcohol are more common causes. The good news is that HPV-associated H&N cancers are associated with a better prognosis/easier treatment than others.

This paper is from 2011 and the incidence is growing if anything (though will hopefully reverse as the immunisation effect kicks in):

Over the last decade it has become clear that human papillomavirus (HPV) not only causes genital and anal cancers, but also causes a subset of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma (HNSCC). In addition to the estimated ~492,800 cervical cancers caused worldwide by HPV each year, HPV also causes an estimated ~30,000 oropharyngeal cancers, HPV is detected in ~25% of all HNSCC (Kreimer et al., 2005), and the majority of these HPV-associated HNSCC are oropharyngeal (tonsillar and base of tongue) squamous cell cancers. In fact, HPV is now the major cause of oropharyngeal cancer in developed countries, detected in 45–90% of cases (Fig. 1) (D’Souza et al., 2007a; Kreimer et al., 2005; Nasman et al., 2009). HPV has also been detected in a smaller subset of laryngeal (24%) and oral cavity (23%) cancers (Kreimer et al., 2005). There is strong and consistent molecular evidence demonstrating that HPV is an etiological cause of these oropharyngeal cancers. HPV is detected in the tumor of these oropharyngeal cancers, where it is localized to the cell nuclei, transcriptionally active, clonal, and not found in the surrounding benign tissue (Gillison et al., 2000). Epidemiologic evidence for the role of HPV in oropharyngeal cancer is equally strong. Case–control studies consistently show that oropharyngeal cancer cases have a higher average number of lifetime sexual partners (a surrogate for oral HPV exposure) and are more likely to have current oral HPV infection than matched controls (Gillison et al., 2008a; Heck et al., 2010; Schwartz et al., 1998).

A friend in the medical field who is a Dr within the NHS (but not sure which area/specialism because we don't talk work) highly recommends the vaccine and is strongly supportive of anyone including myself obtaining it.

Kay

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #38 on: 18 April 2019, 03:00:39 pm »
Just a PS - checked something I worked on recently, and more than 70% of oropharyngeal cancers in the USA have been linked to HPV-16 (which is targeted by both vaccines). They are now developing specific HPV vaccines for the treatment of head and neck cancers, which will be combined with new biological therapies.
"There is no sin except stupidity" - Oscar Wilde

xw5

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #39 on: 18 April 2019, 03:44:45 pm »
Nearly 100% of people with cervical cancer had worn a skirt in the previous year, but that doesn't mean that skirts cause cervical cancer..

It is not at all surprising that 70% of (typically older) adults with oral cancer have HPV-16, because that's more or less the basic prevalence in such people.

I would be astonished if many more of them did not smoke / chew tobacco, either currently or with a long history of it... because that's the biggest cause of oral cancer. Alcohol use is second.

Anything saying otherwise is marketing. Or, in the case of Michael Douglas, mistaken and the claim he made repeatedly when he got it was withdrawn.

'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

Mirror

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #40 on: 18 April 2019, 03:50:03 pm »
Nearly 100% of people with cervical cancer had worn a skirt in the previous year, but that doesn't mean that skirts cause cervical cancer..

It is not at all surprising that 70% of (typically older) adults with oral cancer have HPV-16, because that's more or less the basic prevalence in such people.

I would be astonished if many more of them did not smoke / chew tobacco, either currently or with a long history of it... because that's the biggest cause of oral cancer. Alcohol use is second.

Anything saying otherwise is marketing. Or, in the case of Michael Douglas, mistaken and the claim he made repeatedly when he got it was withdrawn.

I do agree smoking and alcohol being major factors which can be removed/reduced. When the Michael Douglas thing came out I did shout at the news a bit 'What about his alcoholism and cigarette consumption?'.

I no longer touch alcohol and didn't take to smoking on the few times I tried it.

Have also heard hot drinks which scald the mouth thus damaging cells are definitely linked to oral cancer.

Kay

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #41 on: 18 April 2019, 04:02:46 pm »
Nearly 100% of people with cervical cancer had worn a skirt in the previous year, but that doesn't mean that skirts cause cervical cancer..

It is not at all surprising that 70% of (typically older) adults with oral cancer have HPV-16, because that's more or less the basic prevalence in such people.

I would be astonished if many more of them did not smoke / chew tobacco, either currently or with a long history of it... because that's the biggest cause of oral cancer. Alcohol use is second.

Anything saying otherwise is marketing. Or, in the case of Michael Douglas, mistaken and the claim he made repeatedly when he got it was withdrawn.

It's honestly not. HPV-positive squamous cell carcinomas of the head and neck are different biological entities to HPV-negative tumours (they're known as 'hot' tumours). They tend to be in younger patients, have a better prognosis, but don't respond as well to immunotherapies. Most oncology key opinion leaders expect rates to decline as the HPV vaccination campaigns take effect.

Jan. 21, 2016 Researchers have found that when human papillomavirus (HPV)-16 is detected in peoples' mouths, they are 22 times more likely than those without HPV-16 to develop a type of head and neck cancer. The study was published online today in JAMA Oncology.
HPV-16 is a well-known cause of head and neck cancers.  A rising proportion of these cancers are oropharyngeal cancers (cancers of the middle part of the throat including the soft palate, the base of the tongue and the tonsils). This study is the first to demonstrate conclusively that HPV-16's presence in the oral cavity precedes the development of oropharyngeal cancers. (HPV-16 is also responsible for the majority of cervical cancers.) Other studies indicate that detection of HPV in the oral cavity is related to sexual behavior.
The Einstein study involved nearly 97,000 people taking part in two large, national prospective studies. At the start of the studies, participants provided mouthwash samples and were cancer-free. A total of 132 cases of head and neck cancer were identified during an average of nearly four years of follow-up. The study also included a comparison group of 396 healthy subjects (controls), i.e., three controls for each case. Mouthwashes samples for head-and-neck cancer cases and for the controls were analyzed for the presence of several types of oral HPVs.
People with HPV-16 in their mouthwash samples were 22 times more likely to develop oropharyngeal cancer than were study participants with no detectable HPV-16 in their samples. In addition, the presence of other types of oral HPVs—beta- and gamma-HPVs, which are usually detected in the skin—was also associated with the development of head and neck cancers, indicating a broader role for HPVs in causing these cancers than has been recognized to date.
"There is no sin except stupidity" - Oscar Wilde

saltysweet

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #42 on: 18 April 2019, 04:46:24 pm »
Hi I’ve had pre  cancerous cells removed am I too late for the injection?

I believe it's only effective for 12-18 year old virgins who've never been exposed to anyone else's HPVs.
HPVs are normal and lives in most humans, mostly harmless.

I felt I'd missed the boat too but if the science isn't there yet just keep having regular smears and report issues to your doc. My aunt died of cervical cancer, she choose not to tell her doctor she had symptoms.
« Last Edit: 18 April 2019, 05:05:46 pm by saltysweet »

regieeee

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #43 on: 18 April 2019, 06:23:11 pm »
12-44 as if womanhood ends at the end of 44.   ???

saltysweet

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Re: HPV - Help.
« Reply #44 on: 18 April 2019, 07:33:07 pm »
Hi I’ve had pre  cancerous cells removed am I too late for the injection?

No, because you could be affected by another strain.

Yes Kay's right my apologies, I'm amending my reply.
It's not too late if you haven't been exposed to the specific 9 strains that the vaccine deals with.....in your lifetime.
That's why from 12 yrs, 'pre-sexual' it is likely to be more effective.
eg Gardasil 9, protects people from nine strains of HPV, seven of which can cause cancer in the cervix, vagina, anus, penis and throat, and two of which can cause genital warts.

I just read, 'Most HPV infections, including potentially cancer-causing varieties, go away on their own.' National Cancer Insitute
« Last Edit: 19 April 2019, 12:08:10 am by saltysweet »