Wouldn't you therefore be better off writing a play about army-life? It's a subject you clearly know a great deal about, therefore giving you a much greater understanding of how to portray it on stage. Surely that would make more sense. I'm sure that Belle's memoirs were so captivating for the audience because of her first-hand knowledge of the industry! And before you say anything - yes, we all know they were dramatised (sometimes exaggerated and other times 'toned down') for the screen and book but at least she was able to 'pull' on her knowledge of the industry - and it most clearly worked! Something to consider - maybe!

Sapphire

Quote from: MrX on 04 February 2012, 07:15:56 am

If so many of the posters feel that they are being offended or patronised by these requests wouldn't it be easier to remove the "Politics and academic/media queries" section from your forum?

Requests such as the one asking for participation in a study of women whose careers are sex industry based for a PHD doctoral thesis get treated seriously, but then it was politely worded and backed up with impeccable references. The finished research is going to be a valuable contribution to increasing understanding of what it is we do and many of us have been delighted to help.

Maybe these offended and patronised posters could just stop asking us for free advice?  I bezpłatne usługi tłumaczeniowe?*

R

*And free translation services. You can have that one for nothing but in future my usual rates will apply

I've a feeling we may have a(nother) case of "Independent women giving their opinions which may differ from yours = GROUP OF MEGA-BITCHES (hostile & pompous division)" here; not a new thing on the interwebs, unfortunately.

I actually think all the opinions of the sex workers who've written in this thread (in response to someone asking for our views, no less!) have been measured, thoughtful and written in a way that conveys both humour and depth of feeling regarding the issue at hand: the portrayal of sex workers in the media/arts. I think if the OP feels we are all a rude bunch of cows then he probably hasn't ever met a real troll! (And I'm saying that quite facetiously, and without intention to be rude - if this were real life I'd be smiling, just to make my tone here explicitly clear for those who might misread over-sensitively. I am quite serious about my point re. the high quality of responses here and elsewhere on the forum, though, mind. Those who don't like the content of our responses do often get extremely agitated, which is a shame, but that does not indicate an actual inherent problem with the responses themselves. If you come here to talk to sex workers and find it a horrible shock that we are independent, intelligent people with strong views, then I'm sorry... for you. Not necessarily meaning the OP there, that was just a general statement.)

Apologies for going somewhat off-topic here but I do, as anyone can likely tell, find it offensive when someone who might dislike what I and others have said suddenly declares this whole forum "hostile". Disagreeing with you =/= being hostile. I'm sure you'd be insulted if I added, "Perhaps you would appreciate a bit more feminine simpering with your replies?" ... so I won't.

Back on-topic! I think the reason you got so many replies (considering we're a small forum), MrX, is because you actually have a small group of sex workers here who are keen to discuss your idea! We heard your original idea (to put a Polish streetwalker character in a play) and then told you what we thought (as sex workers, we are both bored and afraid of seeing yet more stereotyping of us) and then you said that you felt that the 'fantasy' of us was much more interesting than the reality. Which just probably made us all go: because we felt that probably indicated that you'd much rather go with your original idea than actually take what we'd said into account.

If you made a character in a play who was a fleshed-out, fully-formed woman with life experience and personality, who also happened to be an indoor sex worker (cam work, incalls or selling worn pants - could be anything!) then I think that would be pretty cool. She could go on to do almost anything in the story and there would still be that little 'something different' about her life. But just having another, "OMG, this pretty young thing has to do vile things to survive!" titillation/hand-wringers's-delight caricature, you must admit, has been done a zillion times before.

Ah well. You might be too offended to come back, so that might all be rambling for nothing. I like Sapphireblue's idea, too:

Quote from: sapphireblue on 04 February 2012, 09:37:21 am

Wouldn't you therefore be better off writing a play about army-life? It's a subject you clearly know a great deal about, therefore giving you a much greater understanding of how to portray it on stage. Surely that would make more sense. I'm sure that Belle's memoirs were so captivating for the audience because of her first-hand knowledge of the industry! And before you say anything - yes, we all know they were dramatised (sometimes exaggerated and other times 'toned down') for the screen and book but at least she was able to 'pull' on her knowledge of the industry - and it most clearly worked! Something to consider - maybe!

Your first-hand knowledge of the army could mean that you could write something that would teach the whole audience something they had no idea about! Bit like Belle making everyone go, "OMG" at the the idea that all prossies don't walk the street working for pimps to get drugs. To be even more shocking than Belle, I do reckon the next big book would have to talk about the sex workers who don't make ?500 per hour and wear ridiculous amounts of designer bollocks, but who go into the industry for rather common-place reasons (enjoying self-employment, wanting to pay for further education, supplementing part-time incomes, saving for a mortgage, etc etc) and don't have completely bizarre and dramatic lives (or at least, not silly drama!).

Quote from: MrX on 04 February 2012, 08:06:38 am

The only things I've mentioned about my character is that she is Polish and a prostitute.

Who works on the streets and has a pimp. Guess what? That's not how the majority of us work, and I'd bet a whole lot of money it's not how the girls who are out there living that reality want to work.

Quote from: MrX on 04 February 2012, 08:06:38 am

How is the view from your high horse by the way?

I don't have a high horse. And, bizarrely for t'interwebs, neither does any one else here. I have a lot of time for SAAFE - the advice and the people who post here have got me through quite a few long dark tea-times of the soul. Amy, Emily and Ian in particular donate a great deal of their time to helping quite literally anyone who asks, which is why it riles me when someone is, quite frankly, taking the piss.

If you don't have sufficient imagination to write your play, that's your own bloody problem. If I'd have gone on some soldiers website, saying "Oooh, I'm writing a play about how you all piss on the dead (for that is a fairly typical offensive soldier stereotype), please give me lots of hilarious lines about how you do that", do you think my feet would touch? Nah, me neither.

I could rant for hours, but I'd be wasting my time. You genuinely can't see why your 'play' and your 'enquiry' are condescending, patronising, and offensive. But it's no more my job to educate you on these matters than it is to write your fecking play, so I'll go and have a glass of wine instead 

The only points I have to add to this, and in an attempt to address the thread starter are that a Polish street sex worker when the vast, vast majority are native British is neither believable nor credible, and if you are determined to have a migrant woman as your character I would strongly suggest making her an indoor worker - parlour, walk-up (and look out for Everything if you haven't seen it already), or change the character for a local.

If you want to find out about street work and are not prepared to go out and get your hands dirty yourself, a better way to do so would be to contact one of the organisations that offer support to street sex workers (tip: female adults are women, not 'girls', so unless your female lead is to be underage too I would suggest using more respectful language) and ask them for some information regarding credible research and surveys that have been done. Don't expect to speak to the workers themselves unless you're prepared to pay - we don't work for free any more than you do.

The people on this forum are by and large intelligent, successful businesswomen who resent what they interpret as being patronised and stereotyped, and whilst there is little doubt that the personal circumstances of our street worker counterparts are by and large far less favourable than ours (and everything's open to debate - I remember meeting a street worker who couldn't believe that I would work from home and thought I must be nuts) that doesn't make them lesser human beings than us. From my point of view, I think you've misinterpreted the purpose of the forum and this section (and since your interest is neither political, academic or media related, I'll thank you to keep your views on it's value and how things ought to be run here to yourself) and as you say, you're just barking up the wrong tree.

Oh and 'pimp' is very much a British word, but you're more likely to hear terms like 'friend' or 'boyfriend'. Many women buddy up with fellow workers to record vehicle details and tell where they're going/how long they're likely to be rather than have men playing any sort of active role, although this doesn't mean that the men don't wind up benefiting from the money.

Mr X, you could consider then, (in response to your reply to my post) that your homeless soldier could meet a woman (any woman) in a cafe and start a conversation leading him to 'open up' regarding his experiences, she surely doesn't need to be a prostitute. I don't know what other women on the site think but in my direct experience, (I was a SSW in a large city for many years) and I found that many women who 'worked' the street were certainly not 'well groomed', many (not all I accept) had drug and/or alcohol misuse issues (for a vast array of reasons) and that this, very often, in itself can lead to 'anyone' (male and females) not 'looking after' their personal appearance/safety etc etc (I am trying to say that the fact they are not well groomed is not just present because of the fact they are 'street workers'). Further, in my experience, 'street workers', because they often have a 'pimp', frequently have to hand over all their earnings to that pimp, (again for many reasons - drugs/alcohol/fear/constant intimidation etc etc etc)) so actually are not left with the cash to ensure they are 'groomed well'. Soooooo, why portray a street worker as being well groomed, when the reality is usually far from the truth.
The reason that most 'escorts' are well groomed is that mostly are independent, therefore having no 'pimp' (or whatever anyone wants to call them), earn more money than 'street workers' as they attract a different clientele from those who tend to use 'street workers'. Many escorts are very well educated and are used to a certain standard of living (or wish to have a certain standard of living) and wish this to continue, so again,  for many reasons escort to maintain this lifestyle (I do!).
In a nutshell - maybe you could consider using another character that your soldier could speak with. I could go on forever but how about a older woman - someone who experienced the wars? You could then show how things are differnet now to they were then - with people now being more insular and lots of people not even knowing their next-door neighbour, therefore not maybe having the sense of 'community' that existed back then (whoooooaaaa, I do understand and accept that this isn't always the case and that there were ex-service people who were left homeless after the 'wars' and that we didn't have the 'benefit' system back then! Just that you could maybe show how things have changed - in both good and bad ways) or maybe he could meet a woman who has a soldier/ex soldier partner who has not had the same experiences as 'your' soldier - therefore showing a direct contrast between some ex service people when they leave the army - or how this changes her perception of what could happen to her long-term partner, something maybe she had failed to consider (I don't know, maybe she has little experience of post traumatic shock syndrome and its' ramifications). Or ..... I don't know - there are so many different options!
Just an idea! Please don't think I am being patronising in any way, that really wasn't the intention (either Mr X or other 'working women') and also I apologise if I have used the 'wrong' terms and not been as politically correct and I could have been - I haven't been a SSW  for a long time now  )

Sapphire
 PS I could have gone on forever!!!