See also the main SAAFE.info site for more Support And Advice For Escorts

Author Topic: Seeking Stories and Information  (Read 6494 times)

amy

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,397
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #15 on: 05 July 2015, 03:45:51 pm »
I can't speak for other posters, but I didn't ask because I don't think non-sex workers can research the subject - the most well known researchers like Teela Sanders, Jane Pitcher, Nick Mai, Rosie Campbell OBE (and so on, and so forth) are not sex workers and have never been to the best of my knowledge at least, and I've met quite a few of them.

I asked because this is a sex worker only forum, the OP had already made a vague post in the Buddy section (which is not permitted for non sex workers) and I believed she was deliberately withholding this information because she didn't want to be challenged. The researchers mentioned above have all come from reputable institutions and there has thus been a very straightforward path to follow should anybody contacting them have had any problems as a result of any involvement with them, and without this we're basically allowing random strangers to contact potentially vulnerable people for reasons and with motives which we don't know and can't prove the credibility of.

Other can post for themselves, but I will say that the martyr stuff is getting really tedious now. If you're really so paranoid and touchy that you think that people disagreeing with a post you've made means they're attacking you, either don't post it at all or be ready to stand by and explain why you hold these views - that's what discussion is for. We don't need to hear about your helmet.

victoryrose

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #16 on: 05 July 2015, 04:28:25 pm »
I don't think that only sex workers should research sex work, my post was purely referencing my own attitude towards any research I conduct in future. I think we have reason to be more critical of non sex worker-led research on sex work, but to "ban" it outright would be stupid of course, and counter-productive. There is an article posted on Tits and Sass called "Why You Shouldn't Study Sex Work" (aimed at non-SW researchers). I don't 100% agree with it but it definitely summarises some of my feelings on the topic, though admittedly applicable moreso to those researching sex work from a trafficking/anti-prostitution angle.

Shewolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,477
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #17 on: 05 July 2015, 04:49:22 pm »
I can't speak for other posters, but I didn't ask because I don't think non-sex workers can research the subject - the most well known researchers like Teela Sanders, Jane Pitcher, Nick Mai, Rosie Campbell OBE (and so on, and so forth) are not sex workers and have never been to the best of my knowledge at least, and I've met quite a few of them.

I asked because this is a sex worker only forum, the OP had already made a vague post in the Buddy section (which is not permitted for non sex workers) and I believed she was deliberately withholding this information because she didn't want to be challenged. The researchers mentioned above have all come from reputable institutions and there has thus been a very straightforward path to follow should anybody contacting them have had any problems as a result of any involvement with them, and without this we're basically allowing random strangers to contact potentially vulnerable people for reasons and with motives which we don't know and can't prove the credibility of.

Other can post for themselves, but I will say that the martyr stuff is getting really tedious now. If you're really so paranoid and touchy that you think that people disagreeing with a post you've made means they're attacking you, either don't post it at all or be ready to stand by and explain why you hold these views - that's what discussion is for. We don't need to hear about your helmet.

Because I have put forward a different viewpoint and asked others to comment on it means I am being a 'martyr'?



 

Lucie268

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #18 on: 06 July 2015, 03:47:51 pm »
I am interested in why it seems to be generally thought that in order to create a piece of research (in the form of a book for example) which sheds a different light on prostitution today, the author has to have been a prostitute herself.

If you look at the work of a drugs counsellor as a comparison, in order to be an expert at this career, they do not have to be drug addicts currently in remission. You have to have a genuine interest in why human beings cultivate such coping strategies and a desire to help them cope in less self destructive ways. This could stem from all sorts of life experiences the counsellor has had. They could have had an addictive personality in other ways.

Maybe instead of accusing the OP straightaway of not being worthy of writing a book on prostitution if she has not had extensive experience of it, we should realise there will be reasons why she feels driven to write about this sector.

I think it's far more complex than what has been raised so far. For example, you could argue that prostitution is an addiction and so somebody with an sex addiction is just as capable of producing valuable research in this area.

Now I shall go put my helmet on and await the replies.

It's because of how we are treated. Feminists have a track record of either berating us or patronising us. We're often not consulted on issues that relate directly to us, or are silenced when we try. So why add another book into the mix, and allow someone outside of our industry to make money off it? Also, research is one thing but a whole book is another.

And yes Melissa Gira Grant's (amazing) book doesn't narrate her experiences but she makes it clear she used to be a sex worker.

Shewolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,477
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #19 on: 06 July 2015, 04:36:58 pm »
I am interested in why it seems to be generally thought that in order to create a piece of research (in the form of a book for example) which sheds a different light on prostitution today, the author has to have been a prostitute herself.

If you look at the work of a drugs counsellor as a comparison, in order to be an expert at this career, they do not have to be drug addicts currently in remission. You have to have a genuine interest in why human beings cultivate such coping strategies and a desire to help them cope in less self destructive ways. This could stem from all sorts of life experiences the counsellor has had. They could have had an addictive personality in other ways.

Maybe instead of accusing the OP straightaway of not being worthy of writing a book on prostitution if she has not had extensive experience of it, we should realise there will be reasons why she feels driven to write about this sector.

I think it's far more complex than what has been raised so far. For example, you could argue that prostitution is an addiction and so somebody with an sex addiction is just as capable of producing valuable research in this area.

Now I shall go put my helmet on and await the replies.

It's because of how we are treated. Feminists have a track record of either berating us or patronising us. We're often not consulted on issues that relate directly to us, or are silenced when we try. So why add another book into the mix, and allow someone outside of our industry to make money off it? Also, research is one thing but a whole book is another.

And yes Melissa Gira Grant's (amazing) book doesn't narrate her experiences but she makes it clear she used to be a sex worker.

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying...all I am saying is that instead of everyone asking the OP if she is a sex worker and the answer to that being the be all and end all of the debate, a greater understanding could be reached if she was asked why she wants to write a book in this area, what her motivations are. Maybe then we would understand that some people are driven to write books for reasons other than money. Maybe she would be a 'feminist' who wouldn't berate or patronise... I have read a book by former sex worker Rachel Moran ('Paid For') and, whilst I have respect for what this author has obviously been through, it offers in my view a perspective on sex work which is not at all positive because of her own subjective experience of it.

Lucie268

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #20 on: 06 July 2015, 05:21:12 pm »
I am interested in why it seems to be generally thought that in order to create a piece of research (in the form of a book for example) which sheds a different light on prostitution today, the author has to have been a prostitute herself.

If you look at the work of a drugs counsellor as a comparison, in order to be an expert at this career, they do not have to be drug addicts currently in remission. You have to have a genuine interest in why human beings cultivate such coping strategies and a desire to help them cope in less self destructive ways. This could stem from all sorts of life experiences the counsellor has had. They could have had an addictive personality in other ways.

Maybe instead of accusing the OP straightaway of not being worthy of writing a book on prostitution if she has not had extensive experience of it, we should realise there will be reasons why she feels driven to write about this sector.

I think it's far more complex than what has been raised so far. For example, you could argue that prostitution is an addiction and so somebody with an sex addiction is just as capable of producing valuable research in this area.

Now I shall go put my helmet on and await the replies.

It's because of how we are treated. Feminists have a track record of either berating us or patronising us. We're often not consulted on issues that relate directly to us, or are silenced when we try. So why add another book into the mix, and allow someone outside of our industry to make money off it? Also, research is one thing but a whole book is another.

And yes Melissa Gira Grant's (amazing) book doesn't narrate her experiences but she makes it clear she used to be a sex worker.

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying...all I am saying is that instead of everyone asking the OP if she is a sex worker and the answer to that being the be all and end all of the debate, a greater understanding could be reached if she was asked why she wants to write a book in this area, what her motivations are. Maybe then we would understand that some people are driven to write books for reasons other than money. Maybe she would be a 'feminist' who wouldn't berate or patronise... I have read a book by former sex worker Rachel Moran ('Paid For') and, whilst I have respect for what this author has obviously been through, it offers in my view a perspective on sex work which is not at all positive because of her own subjective experience of it.

Yeah, but like I touched on earlier, there are many sex workers who can and do write books on this topic much better than those who aren't in the industry. But OP has stated she has, so that's fine.

To me, that would be the first thing I would want to know (and the first thing I think that would warrant you being able to write a book about sex work). Good intentions are not enough.

amy

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,397
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #21 on: 06 July 2015, 05:58:47 pm »
Because I have put forward a different viewpoint and asked others to comment on it means I am being a 'martyr'?

No, it's because you seem unable to do so without adding some snark at the end about how everybody will disagree with whatever you say and will likely make posts attacking you for it, presumably so that you can say 'I told you so' if they do. Everybody else can stick to posting about the subject without posting abut their own posts in this weird, passive aggressive way and I suggest you do likewise.

I have read a book by former sex worker Rachel Moran ('Paid For') and, whilst I have respect for what this author has obviously been through, it offers in my view a perspective on sex work which is not at all positive because of her own subjective experience of it.

There is little or no evidence to show that Rachel Moran was ever a Dublin sex worker as she claims, and an awful lot of the people who were at the same time (and in exactly the streets/area she's claimed to have worked) were asked if they had ever met or seen her before - they hadn't.

There is, however, a hell of a lot of evidence to show that the book mentioned is nothing more that fabricated tragedy porn knocked out by the good folks at Ruhama and their latest media-friendly poster girl, and at best belongs wedged behind a pipe in the bog.

Lucie268

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #22 on: 06 July 2015, 06:24:28 pm »
I don't think that only sex workers should research sex work, my post was purely referencing my own attitude towards any research I conduct in future. I think we have reason to be more critical of non sex worker-led research on sex work, but to "ban" it outright would be stupid of course, and counter-productive. There is an article posted on Tits and Sass called "Why You Shouldn't Study Sex Work" (aimed at non-SW researchers). I don't 100% agree with it but it definitely summarises some of my feelings on the topic, though admittedly applicable moreso to those researching sex work from a trafficking/anti-prostitution angle.

I think it speaks volumes that you've read something written by a sex worker saying why you shouldn't involve yourself, and you still want to go ahead and do so anyway. Despite what you've said about how you don't want to silence our voices.

victoryrose

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #23 on: 06 July 2015, 06:39:48 pm »
I don't think that only sex workers should research sex work, my post was purely referencing my own attitude towards any research I conduct in future. I think we have reason to be more critical of non sex worker-led research on sex work, but to "ban" it outright would be stupid of course, and counter-productive. There is an article posted on Tits and Sass called "Why You Shouldn't Study Sex Work" (aimed at non-SW researchers). I don't 100% agree with it but it definitely summarises some of my feelings on the topic, though admittedly applicable moreso to those researching sex work from a trafficking/anti-prostitution angle.

I think it speaks volumes that you've read something written by a sex worker saying why you shouldn't involve yourself, and you still want to go ahead and do so anyway. Despite what you've said about how you don't want to silence our voices.

Excuse me? I am a sex worker. Are you confusing me with the OP? I was arguing that if I ever conduct research on the topic (as I intend to, I'm doing this work to fund my PhD) that I wouldn't do so without mentioning my own involvement in the industry.
« Last Edit: 06 July 2015, 06:41:47 pm by victoryrose »

Lucie268

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #24 on: 06 July 2015, 07:34:40 pm »
I don't think that only sex workers should research sex work, my post was purely referencing my own attitude towards any research I conduct in future. I think we have reason to be more critical of non sex worker-led research on sex work, but to "ban" it outright would be stupid of course, and counter-productive. There is an article posted on Tits and Sass called "Why You Shouldn't Study Sex Work" (aimed at non-SW researchers). I don't 100% agree with it but it definitely summarises some of my feelings on the topic, though admittedly applicable moreso to those researching sex work from a trafficking/anti-prostitution angle.

I think it speaks volumes that you've read something written by a sex worker saying why you shouldn't involve yourself, and you still want to go ahead and do so anyway. Despite what you've said about how you don't want to silence our voices.

Excuse me? I am a sex worker. Are you confusing me with the OP? I was arguing that if I ever conduct research on the topic (as I intend to, I'm doing this work to fund my PhD) that I wouldn't do so without mentioning my own involvement in the industry.

ohhHHH whoops sorry wasn't paying enough attention.

ameliahoney

  • Guest
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #25 on: 08 July 2015, 10:47:35 pm »
I don't post often but hope you don't mind me sticking my two pennies in: In my opinion us sex workers need all the help and support we can get from non SW allies. If we want to reduce the stigma surrounding this work we need objective voices to speak up for us. It's bonkers to exclude outsiders if they want to help. 
I for one am happy that people care enough to want to write about us :)

Lucie268

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #26 on: 09 July 2015, 09:50:29 am »
I don't post often but hope you don't mind me sticking my two pennies in: In my opinion us sex workers need all the help and support we can get from non SW allies. If we want to reduce the stigma surrounding this work we need objective voices to speak up for us. It's bonkers to exclude outsiders if they want to help. 
I for one am happy that people care enough to want to write about us :)

Of course, support is always appreciated and needed! But there are ways of supporting without making your voice central. I think OP should definitely at least mention her history with sex work so it makes her book more valid and probably more acceptable to our community.

ClaudiaL

  • Restricted
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #27 on: 09 July 2015, 04:48:42 pm »
Woah, lots to think about. Playing the Whore is an amazing book, I wish I carried copies at all times to hand to anyone who talked shit about sex workers.

Initially I wanted to approach the book with a tone of "Seriously guys, normal people sell sexual services, it isn't a big deal" and lots of people who know more about publishing than I do reacted strongly and advised against it. But that kind of prejudice NOW makes me think it is all the more important to be open about it. I'll think about it more as I write and continue researching.

ClaudiaL

  • Restricted
  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #28 on: 09 July 2015, 04:52:06 pm »
Ill have a interview where are you based im in cambridge
i think there needs to be a book about the good side of it rather than the horror stories
my mum found out recently id like to say my peace
Thank you! I'm normally in the South West but will be in the Midlands for the next few weeks so Cambridge is convenient for me. Or we can speak on the telephone if you prefer. Could you drop me an email? It's loveridgeclaudia@gmail.com

Kimberly-x

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Seeking Stories and Information
« Reply #29 on: 10 July 2015, 09:30:16 pm »
do any of your parents know what you do?

i told a friend what i do and they told my WHOLE family cousins aunties and my parents

so a outsiders perspective is good but there is good and bad to the whole sex industry

but think about things from a parents point of view

is there any books/documentary/anything
to help families deal with it

(other than me lying and them finding out eventually)   
Never regret anything because at one point it was what you always wanted