SAAFE forum
General Category => Politics and academic/media queries => Topic started by: MsRedhead on 06 July 2018, 02:37:54 am
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Hi everyone,
I'm working with United Voices of the World union in order to come up with a strategy for unionisation of sex workers. (Posts on meetings in other thread in this forum). What I'd like to know from you, is what do you want from a union? Also, if you have any specific queries about joining or getting involved, DM me!
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It would be great if we had one UK organisation/body that could speak on behalf of independent sex workers in terms of politics, discussions with government etc., and act as a counter to the assumption that all sex workers are trafficked, coerced or pimped.
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It would be great if we had one UK organisation/body that could speak on behalf of independent sex workers in terms of politics, discussions with government etc., and act as a counter to the assumption that all sex workers are trafficked, coerced or pimped.
Swarm and English Collective of Prostitutes do that to an extend (and Scot Pep in Scotland)
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If there was a sex workers union I would definitely join it.
As well as speaking up for us on the current issues we are facing, I would really love a union that gives us access to things like.
Insurance cover, life insurance/critical illness/car
Sex industry friendly mortgage brokers, accountants
Legal advice if we run into problems.
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Swarm and English Collective of Prostitutes do that to an extend (and Scot Pep in Scotland)
Indeed they do. We're also free to speak on behalf of ourselves should we prefer to, rather than have somebody else do it :)
If there was a sex workers union I would definitely join it.
As well as speaking up for us on the current issues we are facing, I would really love a union that gives us access to things like.
Insurance cover, life insurance/critical illness/car
Sex industry friendly mortgage brokers, accountants
Legal advice if we run into problems.
You can get most of those already - we don't need 'special' accountants, legal advisers and so on and saying we do just reinforces the idea that we're different to everybody else. We (in common with everybody else) need good, competent ones.
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I have not been able to get critical illness cover as a sex worker. If a union could help us get that I would be very happy as would others. Most trade unions offer deals on insurance etc as a standard perk.
I also had a horrendous experience a few years ago with a so called professional in a profession I listed in my original post who said they were fine with what I did when I used their services, then went on to cause me horrendous issues as it turns out they hated what I did for a living which took quite a while to sort out.
I wish we were the same as people with regular jobs maybe I am very unlucky but people can be prejudiced to what we do, and having people who are accepting of our profession can save a lot of problems.
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I have not been able to get critical illness cover as a sex worker. If a union could help us get that I would be very happy as would others. Most trade unions offer deals on insurance etc as a standard perk.
I also had a horrendous experience a few years ago with a so called professional in a profession I listed in my original post who said they were fine with what I did when I used their services, then went on to cause me horrendous issues as it turns out they hated what I did for a living which took quite a while to sort out.
I wish we were the same as people with regular jobs maybe I am very unlucky but people can be prejudiced to what we do, and having people who are accepting of our profession can save a lot of problems.
Yes, a trade union will sometimes offer deals on things like insurance, but it can't if no insurer will cover the job, and changing their minds would be something for a lobbying/activism group? And another service provider being unprofessional is down to that individual - I've known people (and we've had the posts here too) to encounter appallingly unprofessional behaviour from those advertising as 'sex work accountants' and similar, from charging them ridiculous rates to actually texting them lewd jokes and so on because they thought our job made that OK. A twat is a twat is a twat.
I come from a trade union background, and the function of a trade union (assuming that's what we're talking about and I'm not getting the wrong end of the stick) is to stand up for workers rights by acting as an intermediary between those workers and their employers, usually by using a fairly tried and tested set of bargaining methods. We don't have employers, so the intermediary function is not there?
We already have various lobbying and campaigning groups, sex work projects, peer led support groups both online and in-person plus individuals flitting between them all as well.as doing their own thing - it's all very disparate and diffuse already, and I can't see how spreading things even thinner would be helpful.
EDIT: I forgot to add that there's already a trade union for freelancers and small business owners - from memory I think it's called Community (assuming it's still going :)).
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amy, it might be worth saying that ECP and SWARM members are supporting this effort and we are all working under the umbrella of the national campaign for decriminalisation (i've posted about meetings here). The idea is to join our struggles with those of other marginalised workers. Also, the drive is starting with strippers as they do have workplaces.
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GMB are affiliated with the IUSW sex work organisation, I've been a member for a long time and have benefited from their free legal advice both personal and work life.
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amy, it might be worth saying that ECP and SWARM members are supporting this effort and we are all working under the umbrella of the national campaign for decriminalisation (i've posted about meetings here). The idea is to join our struggles with those of other marginalised workers. Also, the drive is starting with strippers as they do have workplaces.
Well that's good to hear - part of what I was getting at was that there are already myriad groups and organisations and if people aren't getting involved with supporting them, then they won't maintain interest in a new one once the novelty's worn off.
If it also means the stupid infighting and squabbling between organisations (and worse, within single ones too) that I remember from years ago has gone then that's only for the good of everyone. My experience is that they're something of an echo chamber and getting people seriously interested who don't fit into the typical core demographic is extremely hard, and understandably most people don't want to think about work when they're not working.
As regards the professional services, there are good and bad with everything and many have professional bodies that their clients can contact if anything untoward happens (my accountant when I had one was in ACCA, for example) and as we've seen, claiming to be sex worker 'friendly' doesn't mean a thing. Most people only ask about them because hiring a professional who knows they're a sex worker before they even walk in the room means they don't have to tell them, so they're basically allowing a very brief conversation they might prefer not to have to potentially significantly affect them finding the best person for the job and continuing to perpetuate stigma into the bargain.
Equally, nobody has to wave a placard around or rant soundbites with the Twitter cliques if they don't want to - going into a solicitors office or meeting with an independent mortgage broker and saying 'I'm a self employed sex worker and I'd like some help with X and Y' does immeasurable good all by itself. Every post anybody makes on here which demonstrates that they're an ordinary, fully functioning adult does too :).
GMB are affiliated with the IUSW sex work organisation, I've been a member for a long time and have benefited from their free legal advice both personal and work life.
That's good to know, and also a good example of what I meant - I'd completely forgotten about the IUSW and it's so long since I've heard anything from or about it I had no idea it was still going.
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GMB are affiliated with the IUSW sex work organisation, I've been a member for a long time and have benefited from their free legal advice both personal and work life.
IUSW allow bosses to join though and define as "Sex workers"
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Well that's good to hear - part of what I was getting at was that there are already myriad groups and organisations and if people aren't getting involved with supporting them, then they won't maintain interest in a new one once the novelty's worn off.
If it also means the stupid infighting and squabbling between organisations (and worse, within single ones too) that I remember from years ago has gone then that's only for the good of everyone. My experience is that they're something of an echo chamber and getting people seriously interested who don't fit into the typical core demographic is extremely hard, and understandably most people don't want to think about work when they're not working.
As regards the professional services, there are good and bad with everything and many have professional bodies that their clients can contact if anything untoward happens (my accountant when I had one was in ACCA, for example) and as we've seen, claiming to be sex worker 'friendly' doesn't mean a thing. Most people only ask about them because hiring a professional who knows they're a sex worker before they even walk in the room means they don't have to tell them, so they're basically allowing a very brief conversation they might prefer not to have to potentially significantly affect them finding the best person for the job and continuing to perpetuate stigma into the bargain.
Equally, nobody has to wave a placard around or rant soundbites with the Twitter cliques if they don't want to - going into a solicitors office or meeting with an independent mortgage broker and saying 'I'm a self employed sex worker and I'd like some help with X and Y' does immeasurable good all by itself. Every post anybody makes on here which demonstrates that they're an ordinary, fully functioning adult does too :).
That's good to know, and also a good example of what I meant - I'd completely forgotten about the IUSW and it's so long since I've heard anything from or about it I had no idea it was still going.
Yeah when I came into sex work I was in I think Unison, when I told them I was now self-employed and the sector they advised moving to GMB. At the same time I'd heard about the IUSW-GMB association, so it made a lot of sense.
The subs are of course a business expense and like I say I've received useful legal advice, which I'd otherwise have had to paid for - one of which enabled me to deal with a civil case on my own. The other was regards a directory who were using a business clause/law thingy to try and lock me into a renewal. That was when I leaned business 'consumers' do not enjoy the same protections as someone paying for something as a personal purchase.
Probably paid for it via all the subs, but I just like having it there just in case. Also end of the phone advice can be more convenient, as well as give some people in some circumstances a element of discretion. Yeah professionals should be discrete, but as we see in posts here (and also my experience) sometimes feels better if Miss A in tiny town can speak to Solicitor XYZ in London or wherever, or accessing advice locally might actually bring her into contact with clients.
Anyhow I digress.
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Decrim Now: National Campaign for Sex Worker Rights 25th July @ DM FOR VENUE - 7-9pm -
Open to all workers in the industry, allies and supporting orgs. Please help spread the word.
Come and here about our plans for a national campaign towards decriminalisation of sex work!
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IUSW allow bosses to join though and define as "Sex workers"
That's a mix of the GMB rule book and the fact that it's quite easy to cross the line. Sublet your working flat and you become someone running a brothel. Does that mean you should be thrown out?
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That's a mix of the GMB rule book and the fact that it's quite easy to cross the line. Sublet your working flat and you become someone running a brothel. Does that mean you should be thrown out?
no, we define bosses as people with the power to hire and fire
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no, we define bosses as people with the power to hire and fire
Which is EXACTLY what someone subletting their work flat has because they can pick and choose who can work there!
Ana's vision when they started the IUSW was that it would be open to everyone in the sex industry, including those with jobs who weren't popular. When the historic linkup with the GMB was negotiated if that hadn't already been the case, it would have needed to be changed so it was. The GMB rulebook is VERY clear that it is open to "bosses" too.
A long series of meetings means I know that there are people who do not like this but even if the GMB would have agreed to have change their rulebook just for one small branch, the objectors could never come up with a series of purity tests that excluded the one person they didn't like without also catching people they did. Instead the arguments pissed away at least a year.
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That's a mix of the GMB rule book and the fact that it's quite easy to cross the line. Sublet your working flat and you become someone running a brothel. Does that mean you should be thrown out?
Can someone actively running a brothel or an escort agency be a member of IUSW though? Confused.
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Which is EXACTLY what someone subletting their work flat has because they can pick and choose who can work there!
Ana's vision when they started the IUSW was that it would be open to everyone in the sex industry, including those with jobs who weren't popular. When the historic linkup with the GMB was negotiated if that hadn't already been the case, it would have needed to be changed so it was. The GMB rulebook is VERY clear that it is open to "bosses" too.
A long series of meetings means I know that there are people who do not like this but even if the GMB would have agreed to have change their rulebook just for one small branch, the objectors could never come up with a series of purity tests that excluded the one person they didn't like without also catching people they did. Instead the arguments pissed away at least a year.
subletting a room isn't the same as controlling someone's prices/services/choosing their clients.
thankfully this is organised with UVW who don't allow any bosses to join and are worker led. they don't have branches
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Can someone actively running a brothel or an escort agency be a member of IUSW though? Confused.
I believe so. (ugh)
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Does the IUSW union accept new members, I have tried to join in the past, but not got a reply to my emails, or the form I sent off a few years back.
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I believe so. (ugh)
Oh well then I don't see the point as I can't see how that could be an effective union, which to me should be for the consideration and needs of the workers only, not those that profit from them.
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Oh well then I don't see the point as I can't see how that could be an effective union, which to me should be for the consideration and needs of the workers only, not those that profit from them.
and i agree which is why workers are now unionising with United Voices of the World instead
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I do not know how active the IUSW is now. The arguments over exactly this issue took the life out of it. Although everyone agreed on most things, some did not agree with the open to all within the industry policy. After winning a meaningless vote at the most toxic meeting I have ever attended, they then proceeded to do nothing.
No doubt the GMB with its 600,000+ members would be delighted to be told that it is wrong for a trades union to be open to everyone in an industry. Unite the Union with its 1,200,000+ members seems to have the same rules about this, and managers are among the 1,300,000+ members of UNISON.
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subletting a room isn't the same as controlling someone's prices/services/choosing their clients.
Many brothels and agencies do not set prices or services, you choose how much and which ones you do.
Does someone banning smoking in the flat they sublet meaning you can't do smoking fetish work count? It is controlling your services.
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Many brothels and agencies do not set prices or services, you choose how much and which ones you do.
Does someone banning smoking in the flat they sublet meaning you can't do smoking fetish work count? It is controlling your services.
I've never ever encountered a brothel or agency that lets you set your prices. At best some cheap brothels will let you charge extra for specialist services. They certainly don't let you decide how much 'commission' you have to give them, 'lolz'.
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in Spain they have recently met and several prostitutes have created the first union for sex workers called ''OTRAS '' (others)
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in Spain they have recently met and several prostitutes have created the first union for sex workers called ''OTRAS '' (others)
and the government have refused to recognise it. so much for being socialist, feminist government which support workers rights