SAAFE forum
General Category => Politics and academic/media queries => Topic started by: LittleMinx2 on 24 March 2022, 09:45:04 am
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So I was reading about the new online safety bill getting passed in the uk. What will this mean for us that use sites such as adultwork? Will they be getting banned in the uk?
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I also would like to know... :FF I don't think the Bill was passed yet?
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I also would like to know... :FF I don't think the Bill was passed yet?
It was passed on March 17th. By the looks of it, it could effect adultsites
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It was passed on March 17th. By the looks of it, it could effect adultsites
It wasn't. It's only had its first reading in the Commons. The second reading is underway
Yes, it intends to criminalise advertisements relating to "controlling prostitution for gain" so has the potential to have a chilling effect and lead to more deplatforming of sex workers.
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It wasn't. It's only had its first reading in the Commons. The second reading is underway
Ah, apologies. My friend said it had passed. Didn't mean to spread false information.
Yes, it intends to criminalise advertisements relating to "controlling prostitution for gain" so has the potential to have a chilling effect and lead to more deplatforming of sex workers.
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What will happen if we can’t advertise? Make our own sites ?
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I wonder how this is going to affect AdultWork since it’s registered in Malta or Cyprus. Can they still block that somehow?
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I hope it doesn’t stop adult work. Or make it the clients have to have an account to see the numbers etc like a few months ago
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I hope it doesn’t stop adult work. Or make it the clients have to have an account to see the numbers etc like a few months ago
Even if ae gets banned by uk , you still be able to access it via VPN lile the sites in the UAE
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Most the guys I see can’t even use a smart phone well. I doubt they’d use a vpn :(
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Petition here for anybody who wants to make their view known :)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/614408
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Just for an update... I spent 3 h watching this bloody 2nd reading. They haven't mentioned advertising or even prostitution or trafficking even once! It's all about kids and kids' protection online. Now the bill is in the committee stage and they will analyze it line by line and implement changes. Hopefully, they will completely erase the advertising part because it seems irrelevant to the whole concept of this bill. They have time to do it until June I think.
There is a link to a marshalled list of amendments but nothing there yet: https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3137/publications
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I wonder how this is going to affect AdultWork since it’s registered in Malta or Cyprus. Can they still block that somehow?
It includes any company that has substantial links to the UK, which includes having a lot of UK based users, which would include AW.
The terms "inciting or controlling prostitution for gain" are pretty vague though, as it could be argued that sites like Adultwork do neither, as both imply active direct involvement in bringing women into prostitution and then controlling their work. If a term such as 'facilitating' was used, that would be more clearly damning against directories. Its pretty confusing and uncertain. Like, maybe the pressure will be on sites like AW to get rid of agency advertising and so forth, that may be me being hugely optimistic. But there again, according to the ECP's website it has long been against the law to advertise sexual services in the UK in any case, so maybe even if this passes it'll sit like other of the mass of British legislation, like a lame duck. ???
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In my opinion, they may leave it deliberately vague, so they have a wide scope to interpret it and apply it however they so choose after it has been introduced.
The legal system we have in the UK is what is called a 'common law' system. This means our laws are not just made up of the words that are written in the statute books, but also how they are applied in practice.
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Yea, common laws are when decisions made by judges due to 'holes in the legislation' become precedent and are reproduced, but statutes are policy laws made by gov and they are the 'last word' of law. It would be good to read the rest of the bit of the bill that deals specifically with this to see if it clarifies what it means by this, and how it proposes to deal with it. I know Ofcom is being tasked to deal with stuff around porn and consent for example. But I've tried looking at the bill but its gargantuan technocrats dream and I can't scroll anymore. :-\
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Petition here for anybody who wants to make their view known :)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/614408
This needs properly spreading x thanku x
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It is indeed quite scary, within the list it includes “inciting or controlling prostitution for gain” with punishment being large fines and jail sentences for site owners.
I’ve been doing a lot of research into the bill and I am still researching as to what can be done and the loopholes to get around the bill. I’ll keep this thread updated with my findings.
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It is indeed quite scary, within the list it includes “inciting or controlling prostitution for gain” with punishment being large fines and jail sentences for site owners.
Inciting or controlling prostitution for gain is illegal already and is what we call pimping.
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Just my personal opinion..
i don’t see this bill getting passed.
Platforms would get a way around things but removing likes list or anything escort related
And it would make the industry far more dangerous
Although it is worrying they are pushing for this I don’t actually see it ever happening.
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Have been wondering how will this effect the independents whose website feature a list/page of friends with links to their websites. Does this count as the site owner being a facilitator or even mark them as someone who is inciting or controlling prostitution in some way?
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Just my personal opinion..
i don’t see this bill getting passed.
Platforms would get a way around things but removing likes list or anything escort related
And it would make the industry far more dangerous
Although it is worrying they are pushing for this I don’t actually see it ever happening.
The bill could be past because it's focus isn't prostitution, the prostitution part is only a small part.
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The bill could be past because it's focus isn't prostitution, the prostitution part is only a small part.
Yes but the prostitution comes under the same umbrella in that bill. Which would put sex workers at enormous risks. Hence I don’t think this bill will go through.
It would put lives at risk and ask much as they are pushing for it I don’t see this happening not even in the slightest. But I could be wrong as I say it’s only my opinion.
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Yes but the prostitution comes under the same umbrella in that bill. Which would put sex workers at enormous risks. Hence I don’t think this bill will go through.
It would put lives at risk and ask much as they are pushing for it I don’t see this happening not even in the slightest. But I could be wrong as I say it’s only my opinion.
it'll pass.
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It could also go through and then sit gathering dust, not being carried out most of the time, like a lot of the mountains of British legislation.
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Even if it does go through I am hoping escort sites just remove likes list and keep things basic rather than nothing at all.
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Even if it does go through I am hoping escort sites just remove likes list and keep things basic rather than nothing at all.
Cross fingers you are correct, I'd love it if sites removed likes lists.
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Cross fingers you are correct, I'd love it if sites removed likes lists.
Yeah I am hoping if it does happen they will still allow basic massage ads. With no mention of any likes ect.
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The thing is even if the law is altered from it's current wording, we don't know how it will be applied. It could be interpreted that any individual or business involved in owning, running or hosting sites that offer sex for sale (with somebody other than themselves) will be breaking the law. Even if it is applied more leniently, many site s will get rid of us as soon as it is passed to make sure they stay on the right side of the law.
For example I personally expect that site builders such as wix and squarespace will no longer be willing to host escort sites in the UK if this hideous mess of legislation manages to get through.
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The thing is even if the law is altered from it's current wording, we don't know how it will be applied. It could be interpreted that any individual or business involved in owning, running or hosting sites that offer sex for sale (with somebody other than themselves) will be breaking the law. Even if it is applied more leniently, many site s will get rid of us as soon as it is passed to make sure they stay on the right side of the law.
For example I personally expect that site builders such as wix and squarespace will no longer be willing to host escort sites in the UK if this hideous mess of legislation manages to get through.
This would definitely be the case, any company that isn’t specialising in the adult sector will just get rid of anything that goes against the bill.
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Does anybody know when the last reading is for the bill? I know it’s got abit to go but any idea how how it maybe has?
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Does anybody know when the last reading is for the bill? I know it’s got abit to go but any idea how how it maybe has?
24th and 26th May are the evidence sessions for the bill. Will keep everyone updated.
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... Here is another Petition to sign, with many more signatures on it.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601932
[link edited]
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Looking on the UK Parliament website they are asking for people to contact them with info "if you have relevant expertise and experience or a special interest in the Online Safety Bill, which is currently passing through Parliament"
We can submit our views in writing to the House of Commons Public Bill Committee which is going to consider this Bill. This request was posted on 20th April 22. Would it be worth all of us writing to them telling them the effect it would have on us all, maybe if enough people did this, it could be changed or am I being a bit naïve.
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... I have this link that may be of interest to those reading who don't want to go directly to the government website (in regard to responding to how the "Online Safely Bill" will directly effect you), where I suspect they want your name and address...
https://prostitutescollective.net/online-safety-bill-callout
[link edited]
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??? :FF Oh no.. will this also affect independent individual websites??
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Most likely yes
??? :FF Oh no.. will this also affect independent individual websites??
Most likely yes, depending on who your hosting is with.
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https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/614408
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Hello all, any updates on this ?
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It's been dropped from Commons business today, apparently.
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Yay it’s being postponed until the new prime minister is in place :D
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With this new law looming.. I am just wondering what everybody’s thoughts are on this if it comes into place which is now likely.
Would that be the end of adultwork and viva street?
Im kind of stressing right now. ESP with bills going up :(
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What's the new law sorry I've not heard anything?
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It's here;
https://saafe.info/main/politics-and-academicmedia-queries/online-safety-bill-uk/
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Surely they can't take down AW and Vivastreet?
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So, the latest is Diana Johnson PM speaking with Suella Braverman about VS and AW and how those “pimping sites” facilitate “human trafficking”. Can’t believe this bullshit has made it this far up but there we go.
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I've been reading up on this today. The bill has been passed...?
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I've been reading up on this today. The bill has been passed...?
No there's another reading scheduled in the Lords 6th September.
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No there's another reading scheduled in the Lords 6th September.
Its that like the final stage?
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Its that like the final stage?
Same as for my first answer I Googled the right words, found a page called Bill stages. Information on that page explains Bill can start is either Commons or Lords, 3 readings each, then it is agreed and taken to royal assent.
When I looked for answer to your first question I could see the Online Safety Bill has had 3 readings in the commons, it's had 2 in the lords, plus various committee stages. After third reading looks like it goes back to the Commons for final acceptance the royal assent.
All this can be found by googling Online Safety Bill, and separate search 'stages of Bill through parliament'
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Excellent. I'll be sure to use Google next time :)
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I really wonder how the likes of aw and vivastrest will survive if the bill is passed which is going to be.. I am abit worried about this now
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I think most sites are banned in America but they still manage
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I think most sites are banned in America but they still manage
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I think most sites are banned in America but they still manage
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Maybe they will just add an additional consent option on adult work
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I really wonder how the likes of aw and vivastrest will survive if the bill is passed which is going to be.. I am abit worried about this now
They can impose that as a service seeker you can only use the site if you’re registered and age verified with them and have an account. Else no access to the site. Which of course means less income for us.
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Maybe they will just add an additional consent option on adult work
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If it wad my site I would just add a massage only section and then what we ladies offer when the punters get in touch is up to us
It was like this years ago in the papers
You couldn’t advertise sex or anything like owo
You had to be creative with words 😂
Yes years ago paper adverts allowed adverts under massage and escort services and charged a lot more than other adverts but no mention of sex was allowed. What would the point be if the government passed this bill but still allowed Adultwork and Viva to operate but just not mentioning services then nothing has changed apart from us having even more timewasters than ever not only on the phone but in person.
If they are wanting to stop sex adverts online that starts with Adultwork and viva not having any adult section.
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If thishappens would adverts for video calls be allowed?
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Ok I don't know how the new laws affect sex workers, maybe just directories and social media. But i know it's not fosta . But do you think that there's a possibility that it will affect sex worker forums and other platforms that give advice working and being safe under the inciting prostitution? A lot of sex worker advice websites shut in america after the fosta laws (I know it's illegal in america and sex work is legal in the uk).
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Yes years ago paper adverts allowed adverts under massage and escort services and charged a lot more than other adverts but no mention of sex was allowed. What would the point be if the government passed this bill but still allowed Adultwork and Viva to operate but just not mentioning services then nothing has changed apart from us having even more timewasters than ever not only on the phone but in person.
If they are wanting to stop sex adverts online that starts with Adultwork and viva not having any adult section.
But “massage “ is massage
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We prob all become models and charge modelling rates or social dates. No mention of sexual services. If it does pass it take til 2024 to come into force so directories and classifieds sites have time to change their websites.
You never get rid of sex work. I remember doing parlours and paper ads and escort agencies where you had social dates only. Go back to the old days and you discuss sex services (if indie) via txt/ email. Or parlours / agencies it be discuss services with lady of your choice in the room (parlours) or agency discuss on your date.
Or you see a lot of VIP massage or fully inclusive massage services offered. Words like that.
Some escorts will quit and go into cam work and adult content.
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..
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Nothing has changed in America despite SESTA / FOSTA law
TER. the erotic review is still up
Eros
Tryst
P411
They all have big disclaimers blah blah
Verify him is gone and smaller website
But if AW makes around 20k a day from 2000 escorts paying for Sat AT , showing the phone number and say two local escort search’s they aren’t going to want to let that money go away so I would imagine they and Viva Shit - I mean viva street do everything possible to hold on to that money
Backpage?
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I was thinking that if we are no longer allowed to display services and sexual info, I'd have a second work phone purely set up as a text response device. They text that in the first instance and it auto replies services and rules, and a second number to call to actually book. Or maybe I'll do both from one number, I'll have to suck it and see what's best.
That way, I wouldn't spend ages fielding info requests. Well, not as much anyway :P :FF
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Effect of Online Security Bill for Whatsapp, Signal, Facetime, Imessage - Goodbye UK
The point of the newspaper article:
At the moment, messages sent on WhatsApp and in other messaging appsare encrypted. No one can read it except the sender and the recipient. They want to oblige service providers by law to unlock this encryption and hand over the contents of the messages to the authorities if the law gives rise to suspicion of an offense. If they don't do this, they can even be sentenced to prison. The answer of the owners of Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, Facetime, Imessage is that in this case they will withdraw from the UK and these messaging applications will not be available to people living in the UK.
Will we use the Chinese Wechat application to communicate with our clients? lol... :FF
[entire long article copy paste removed]
News source: BBC 13.08.2023
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Post above edited. Please summarise if you want to post about an opinion piece you have seen rather than copy the whole entire text into SAAFE.
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I remember when France introduced the Nordic law and made it illegal for advertisers to facilitate prostitution ( similar to the clause in the OLSB )
And viva st had loads of escorts on there as I remember researching a holiday / tour in France
So you would think that stopped the advertising on Viva St and all the other sites
Nope they are all just in the massage section now on viva 😂
No services / likes listed
AW has one escort there on the France page who is advertising’s her services and lists despite the possibility of AW seen as facilitating prostitution through this
And when you look at all the main escort sites in France some advertise all the services and some don’t
So obviously the law isn’t really acted on in France
I have a friend who lives and works in Paris and she advertises in plenty of places, problem is she's always paranoid thinking the po-po is going to knock on her door any minute. She's planning on moving to another European country as she says working like that is very stressful. The nordic model is a joke, she was attacked once, went to the police and was treated like a criminal.
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Can we get back on topic, please?
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Is the last reading for the OLSB on the 6th September
What happens after that - anyone know
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AW only give a shit about themselves
I remember that case as well
The only thing I do know is that when the Sesta / Fosta laws came into place AW removed all the American escorts of the USA page ( not that there was a lot )
So they didn’t want to piss off the USA government
But there are similar laws in other countries with regards to advertising prostitution on line / profiting from it
I think France has it under the Nordic model but they have 1 advert in France and Northern Ireland is under the Nordic model so I assume they have similar laws about profiting from online advertising
I believe the SESTA/FOSTA makes it a federal crime to advertise prostitution and that's some pretty serious stuff that will land you in jail for a very long time, fact is since it was implemented the few American directories have been sold, emigrated their servers/staff/headquarters to other countries and are asking for all sorts of ID's when it comes to posting an ad. Backpage (which was a huge moneymaker) was removed by the Feds and no other directory has had the balls to take over, even craigslist removed their casual encounters and dating section! so consequences for facilitating online prostitution must be pretty harsh now. As per the European countries with nordic model (like France) directories are still operating and so far (that we know) no online directory has gotten on cahoots (touches wood). I believe (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Europe has a more "laissez faire" attitude because there's no SESTA/FOSTA laws, despite prostitution being semi-legal in some countries (nordic model) there's no specific laws that will land directory owners in jail (unlike the US), the worse that could happen to them is to have their directories removed.
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@Anna so would the OLSB be similar to SESTA / FOSTA or just there in theory but very little happening
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Backpage?
Backpage had hundreds of lawsuits, some serious ones, there was even a parents of trafficked victims association that went to congress! There was also a very personal vendetta between the owners of Backpage and senator Mcain (the guy who pushed the SESTA/FOSTA law) stemming from the 80's when backpage didn't even existed. The removal of Backpage was a storm waiting to happen. I think was this experience taught us is that you can't have a directory selling prams, cars and apartments on one section and hookers (excuse my French) on another. Since them sex work online advertising has directories that are just for that (no traffic from "honourable" people -observe commas-), they all can be hidden with search filters etc... and hidden from public view. Basically you're sweeping prostitution under the rug "No see, no hear no talk". If OLB gets approved I see a similar approach.
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3rd reading House of Lords 6th September 2023
According to the UK Parliament website a bill has 3 readings in House of Commons, 3 readings in House of Lords. Each house decides on 3rd reading whether to accept it. The first house then is asked to agree with amendments made by the second.
Once both houses agree the bill receives Royal Assent and becomes law.
I cannot find any further information or dates on the website.
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3rd reading House of Lords 6th September 2023
According to the UK Parliament website a bill has 3 readings in House of Commons, 3 readings in House of Lords. Each house decides on 3rd reading whether to accept it. The first house then is asked to agree with amendments made by the second.
Once both houses agree the bill receives Royal Assent and becomes law.
I cannot find any further information or dates on the website.
Thank you
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Apparently bill just passed so got knows what it means for escort advertising sites and personal escort websites!
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"While the bill has been in progress, the government has been working closely with Ofcom to ensure changes will be implemented as quickly as possible .
The regulator will immediately begin work on tackling illegal content and protecting children’s safety, with its consultation process launching in the weeks after Royal Assent. It will then take a phased approach to bringing the Online Safety Bill’s into force."
Parliament voted yesterday.
I think this means the end of our work in the UK. Just a sentence from the law. Age verification. We all know that there are many problems with AW and VS. How will the mandatory age verification be carried out for all user? No way because there is no capacity for it. Will they accept the multibillion-dollar penalty or prison? No. The operators will close the escort pages.
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I’m very concerned now they will remove all sex worker websites. But surely they will be a way around things
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But you need to understand that it's not just about banning sites, it's not that central issue, the problem is that there are many girls being truly exploited here and we don't even know it.
In Spain when they banned prostitution, they blocked several websites too, they closed many houses, it was crazy, maybe it's not part of our reality, but there are a lot of girls doing slave labor and they don't even know it and the pimps still say they are helping the girls.
Maybe that's why they're making these little bans.
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For what it's worth I asked the website design person who built my site, they say the law is aimed at freely accessible social media making sure social media have measures in place to prevent young teenagers accessing harmful or pornographic content.
One question I asked is about direct custom video sales, the website designer thinks because the video has to be requested by directly corresponding with me, it's not an issue. It's not available by just browsing or scrolling. I may however add something to my t&c when I accept the order.
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Hi Ladies,
I've sort of read the bill (sorry it was quite a long one so may have skipped a few parts), so far it's the government trying to control content, privacy, our online shenanigans etc.. That includes certain porn, illegal activities etc... It's pretty intrusive to be honest. It also makes directory owners liable and responsible for their stuff. As prostitution is not an illegal activity I'm not sure why this would seriously affect escort directories (unless they get hit with a trafficking lawsuit backpage style). Obvs this is going to make escort directories be really really careful from now on, which means more ID controls etc... If someone has had the patience to properly read the bill and would be so kind as to post any mention of banning online escort directories so we can all dissect it I would really appreciate. Thanks all. ana
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Hi Ladies,
I've sort of read the bill (sorry it was quite a long one so may have skipped a few parts), so far it's the government trying to control content, privacy, our online shenanigans etc.. That includes certain porn, illegal activities etc... It's pretty intrusive to be honest. It also makes directory owners liable and responsible for their stuff. As prostitution is not an illegal activity I'm not sure why this would seriously affect escort directories (unless they get hit with a trafficking lawsuit backpage style). Obvs this is going to make escort directories be really really careful from now on, which means more ID controls etc... If someone has had the patience to properly read the bill and would be so kind as to post any mention of banning online escort directories so we can all dissect it I would really appreciate. Thanks all. ana
Hello,
I can see two avenues in which they can pursue/penalise the directories:
Looking at Schedule 7 'Priority offences':
1) Sexual exploitation
23 An offence under any of the following provisions of the Sexual Offences Act 2003—
(a) section 52 (causing or inciting prostitution for gain);
(b) section 53 (controlling prostitution for gain).
Then the bit about child sexual exploitation and causing children to look at sexual images.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0209/220209.pdf
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Controlling prostitution for gain is pimping and doesn't apply to advertising sites; there is no control aspect. Both need to be present, as there would be with an agency or a receptionist who arranges a booking (control) and takes a cut of the proceeds (gain) for an offence to have taken place.
Causing or inciting prostitution doesn't apply either unless there are directories out there encouraging people who are not already sex workers to become sex workers (because prostitution is so great, earn £££££, etc). I've never seen this, just them trying to pitch advertising at people who are already working - I think we're been accused of it a few times by the hard-of-reading, until we've pointed out that the site is for people who are already starting or considering starting sex work (and therefore have already decided for themselves).
Nobody is going to be able to make that one stick on an advertising site, and I can't see how a website can sexually exploit anybody either (as opposed to providing a platform for someone who does, but that's like blaming Autotrader if you buy a second hand car that turns out to be a shitheap).
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Controlling prostitution for gain is pimping and doesn't apply to advertising sites; there is no control aspect. Both need to be present, as there would be with an agency or a receptionist who arranges a booking (control) and takes a cut of the proceeds (gain) for an offence to have taken place.
Causing or inciting prostitution doesn't apply either unless there are directories out there encouraging people who are not already sex workers to become sex workers (because prostitution is so great, earn £££££, etc). I've never seen this, just them trying to pitch advertising at people who are already working - I think we're been accused of it a few times by the hard-of-reading, until we've pointed out that the site is for people who are already starting or considering starting sex work (and therefore have already decided for themselves).
Nobody is going to be able to make that one stick on an advertising site, and I can't see how a website can sexually exploit anybody either (as opposed to providing a platform for someone who does, but that's like blaming Autotrader if you buy a second hand car that turns out to be a shitheap).
Hi Amy.
Can't those idiots pick on the fact that both AW and Viva charge workers for advertising/display numbers/local featuring and can't this be construed as benefitting from their prostitution?
Also not sure how can directories prevent content/whole site being viewed by children unless they make punters age-verify and provide their IDs, and we all know that making them do this, and making them potentially compromise their privacy, is not going to be successful. We have seen what happened when they tried restricting viewing phone numbers only to punters with an account - inquiries reduced significantly.
Also there's no 100% foolproof way to prevent trafficking victims being advertised, surely despite the mechanisms and hoops to jump thru, AW isn't able to completely prevent this from happening.
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I can't see how a website can sexually exploit anybody either (as opposed to providing a platform for someone who does
The directory in itself has no interest in exploiting anyone but can be easily accused of 'facilitating' it, not dealing with it/preventing it sufficiently enough and then be penalised for not 'doing their bit'.
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Can't those idiots pick on the fact that both AW and Viva charge workers for advertising/display numbers/local featuring and can't this be construed as benefitting from their prostitution?
As my post says, benefitting (gaining) from prostitution is not an offence; they need to also be controlling it which they are not doing. I don't really know any other way to word it than I already have.
Also not sure how can directories prevent content/whole site being viewed by children unless they make punters age-verify and provide their IDs, and we all know that making them do this, and making them potentially compromise their privacy, is not going to be successful. We have seen what happened when they tried restricting viewing phone numbers only to punters with an account - inquiries reduced significantly.
I was under the impression that AW already did use age verification for looking at pay galleries and so on which is why all adult pictures are supposed to be paywalled now; they were certainly going to (by credit card, I think), so I have no idea what happened to that. I can't see why anybody would need to show ID to do this either, nor how this would stop any underage person determined to look at it to borrow their parents documents. Adultwork isn't a site I'm an expert on though to be fair, and I've no interest in posting/selling porn pics - I'd guess that a few 3rd party verification facilities would spring up.
Also there's no 100% foolproof way to prevent trafficking victims being advertised, surely despite the mechanisms and hoops to jump thru, AW isn't able to completely prevent this from happening.
Of course there isn't, but catching people traffickers is a matter for the authorities, not the fuckwits at Vivastreet and the like. It's a shit website, but it isn't their job to find criminals any more than a supermarket is responsible for finding trafficked farm workers when they decide where to order their produce. If people are hellbent on breaking the law then they'll find a way to do it.
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As my post says, benefitting (gaining) from prostitution is not an offence; they need to also be controlling it which they are not doing. I don't really know any other way to word it than I already have.
I was under the impression that AW already did use age verification for looking at pay galleries and so on which is why all adult pictures are supposed to be paywalled now; they were certainly going to (by credit card, I think), so I have no idea what happened to that. I can't see why anybody would need to show ID to do this either, nor how this would stop any underage person determined to look at it to borrow their parents documents. Adultwork isn't a site I'm an expert on though to be fair, and I've no interest in posting/selling porn pics - I'd guess that a few 3rd party verification facilities would spring up.
Of course there isn't, but catching people traffickers is a matter for the authorities, not the fuckwits at Vivastreet and the like. It's a shit website, but it isn't their job to find criminals any more than a supermarket is responsible for finding trafficked farm workers when they decide where to order their produce. If people are hellbent on breaking the law then they'll find a way to do it.
1. Yes it's paywalled for certain content, not but free gallery or profile photos that are widely accessible as soon as you hit 'Enter'. Yes, in theory we are only supposed to upload images 'suitable for minors' and don't show any sex acts, yet I've seen many profiles where there were free-view depictions of oral or penetration (that's supposedly against their TOS). Even if none of this was visible, an overzealous SWERF/ONS supporter can still point out at photos of tits and arses, even in lingerie, and say those are inappropriate materials for children to look at.
2. Of course it's not their job but this stupid bill makes it a legal requirement for private companies/websites such as VS/AW to effectively play police and penalises the owners of those sites/companies if they're perceived as not trying hard enough to remove 'legal but harmful' content (and that's subjective as fuck).
I really really do hope you're correct and that women will be able to still advertise safely online, I am just trying to look at this from a perspective of an overzealous 'we need to combat human trafficking right now!' style swerf, and try analyse how much risk there realistically is.
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But you need to understand that it's not just about banning sites, it's not that central issue, the problem is that there are many girls being truly exploited here and we don't even know it.
In Spain when they banned prostitution, they blocked several websites too, they closed many houses, it was crazy, maybe it's not part of our reality, but there are a lot of girls doing slave labor and they don't even know it and the pimps still say they are helping the girls.
Maybe that's why they're making these little bans.
Spain hasn't "banned prostitution"
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From what I read
It will be ensuring that kids can’t access the site by default
So possibly AW will remove a lot of the free xxx content
Or they may do what they tried to do last year and make anyone wanting to view our contact details become a member and register / verify that they are over 18
That would probably be AW preferred way of ensuring kids can’t access it and it’s what they tried to do previously
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Today I received this email from the AW, it seems they have started moderating the aw profiles for 0nline Safety Bill...
Note: This message emailed to you on 12/10/2023 at 15:23.
Hello......
Whilst checking your profile pictures we noticed that one or more of your recent uploads do not meet the requirements for 'Adult Content Certification'.
You previously stated that all of your free-to-view pictures were not unsuitable for minors and that any future uploads to these areas would also conform to the general principle of no nudity.
With Adult Content Certification turned on, your free-to-view pictures are shown to members that have not age verified, as is. As you are now uploading content that is for 'adults only', we have turned off the Adult Content Certification setting from your profile.
Please do not turn it back on without removing all inappropriate imagery from your profile and elsewhere. Members that repeatedly upload inappropriate content to a profile with Adult Content Certification turned on will leave us little option but to suspend their membership.
Thanks and regards
The AdultWork.com Team
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No, they've had that for years. I remember when we all had to tick the box.to say we would keep all images that could be viewed as adult only for private galleries, and nothing has changed there.
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No, they've had that for years. I remember when we all had to tick the box.to say we would keep all images that could be viewed as adult only for private galleries, and nothing has changed there.
They told me a while back they stopped the restrictions on this, at the time I had received warnings for photos that did not show anything not even a nipple I all photos had my genitals covered with lingerie. For several years I would test out my photos in PG first, if marked non-nude I'd dare to post in public.
A year or two later during a live help chat I mentioned this, the advisor told me they no longer applied the rule it wasn't being used. I started posting photos directly into public without the PG NN test. Bear in mind I never had any showing anything anyway.
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Today I received this email from the AW, it seems they have started moderating the aw profiles for 0nline Safety Bill...
Note: This message emailed to you on 12/10/2023 at 15:23.
Hello......
Whilst checking your profile pictures we noticed that one or more of your recent uploads do not meet the requirements for 'Adult Content Certification'.
You previously stated that all of your free-to-view pictures were not unsuitable for minors and that any future uploads to these areas would also conform to the general principle of no nudity.
With Adult Content Certification turned on, your free-to-view pictures are shown to members that have not age verified, as is. As you are now uploading content that is for 'adults only', we have turned off the Adult Content Certification setting from your profile.
Please do not turn it back on without removing all inappropriate imagery from your profile and elsewhere. Members that repeatedly upload inappropriate content to a profile with Adult Content Certification turned on will leave us little option but to suspend their membership.
Thanks and regards
The AdultWork.com Team
Just turn it off, it's not about online safety bill
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I think that might mean that only members will see your profile
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I saw "Consultation: Guidance for service providers publishing
pornographic content"
Start: 05 December 2023 Status: Open End: 05 March 2024" by Ofcom,
with links of documents.
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Hey girls:
[removed]
The online safety bill is starting come into play more and more and will start affecting us. Especially if some of the big sites like AW don’t make any changes.
My recommendation for now is to get a website built for yourself, no nudity (pictures in lingerie is fine). And just at least have a holding page up for people to visit should things become hard. It shouldn’t cost you anymore than £10 a month to have up. If anyone needs any help with it please let me know.
I’m reading more and more about it and how we can keep our business up and running and affect us in the smallest way possible.
[press link removed as per rules, merged with existing thread]
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Just to add it’s now all over the news that, websites are going to have to start ID checking visitors if they have 18+ content. A lot of visitors of adult work aren’t going to want to give their ID.
I’m looking into this more and potential ways clients can bypass this but for now I’d recommend getting your own website as a back up.
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If anyone needs any help with it please let me know.
And the way to do this is by posting on the board so that everyone can contribute; as per the forum rules we don't want individuals styling themselves as experts when a broad range of views and experiences is more helpful :)
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How though, can websites be unavailable to viewers unless a viewer contacts the website to offer up ID to show they are an adult? Is this what the OSB is suggesting?
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“The list of measures for proving someone is over 18 include: uploading a photo-ID document; contacting your mobile network provider to allow your phone to access adult content; checking age via credit card details; and using “digital identity wallets” that store evidence of a person’s age.”
“Under the proposed guidelines, if technology platforms adopt the measures they will be deemed to be in compliance with the act. Companies that fail to comply face fines of up to £18m or 10% of their global annual revenue.”
The sites content now will hide behind a wall of “ID verification” if you’ve verified once it will remember you so you don’t have to do it everytime, unless you likely access it again off a different IP address if you don’t have an account.
But then the easiest way would be by having an account and uploading ID.
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“The list of measures for proving someone is over 18 include: uploading a photo-ID document; contacting your mobile network provider to allow your phone to access adult content; checking age via credit card details; and using “digital identity wallets” that store evidence of a person’s age.”
“Under the proposed guidelines, if technology platforms adopt the measures they will be deemed to be in compliance with the act. Companies that fail to comply face fines of up to £18m or 10% of their global annual revenue.”
The sites content now will hide behind a wall of “ID verification” if you’ve verified once it will remember you so you don’t have to do it everytime, unless you likely access it again off a different IP address if you don’t have an account.
But then the easiest way would be by having an account and uploading ID.
I just don't see how any website showing explicit photos will survive this? I'm wondering if AW etc will get around it by making sure there is no porn and no references to sexual services and go back to a companionship profiling format. I just don't know. But I think this will take a couple of years to finalise.
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I'm wondering if AW etc will get around it by making sure there is no porn and no references to sexual services and go back to a companionship profiling format.
The advertising of prostitution remains legal and nothing to do with this; the Bill is specifically related to pornography being accessed by minors. I don't have porn pictures on any of my ads and I've been a prostitute for over twenty years.
AW tried to stop adult only images being displayed on public parts of the site a few years ago (when we were all supposed to tick a box saying we would put them behind the PG paywall) but didn't bother enforcing it, or do anything to prevent underage people registering on the site. Now they'll have to, as will the porn sites and presumably the webcam ones.
As for the verification, I've had to take my mobile phone into the shop or enter credit card details into it to get an Over 18 block lifted more times than I care to remember, so that's nothing new. Anybody who wants to get precious about doing so may have forgotten that you also need it lifting to use gambling/betting sites :)
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Hi Amy. Do you think anyone will be able to access an escort advertising site like AW, so long as there are no porn photos? So unverified people will still be able to see sexual services being offered - just no porn shots? Or I wonder if sites like AW will just be a blank screen unless people verify to view it, full stop. Stopping kids accessing porn is good and long overdue but I'm confused about how this will pan out in the future for places like AW.
I can't remember age verifying my AW phone but I guess I must have.
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Hi Amy. Do you think anyone will be able to access an escort advertising site like AW, so long as there are no porn photos? So unverified people will still be able to see sexual services being offered - just no porn shots?
I can't imagine why it wouldn't; it's strictly the images they're interested in. I'd guess they'll do something like blur all the images for anybody who isn't logged in regardless of their content (which is where Rosie's suggestion of a website comes in if you don't have one, and then you can link to it for those who don't want to register). This is a porn thing, not a prossie thing.
Don't forget that there are countries all over the world where actual prostitution and/or punting are illegal and every single one of them still has both going on. These stupid laws exist only to make the tossers in charge look like they're doing something useful, and the only effect they have on anything is making everyone less safe and everything more time consuming and annoying for all of us.
If they were really that bothered they'd find ways to compel parents to supervise their bloody kids properly and let the grown ups get on with it.
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I believe when it comes to prostitution sites this bill and the new internet laws now make the website owners responsible for any explotation, trafficking or minors (which was not the case before). For years Backpage owners were taken to court and never charged because the laws were designed for website owner to not be liable of what people posted, the minute the SESTA/FOSTA laws were signed by Trump the BP owners got arrested and charged with aiding trafficking (or something in those lines). That's the reason why AW verifiy us holding our passports and have us go through all the hoops. This measure is being adopted now by most escort sites, because if someone is being exploited/trafficked AW owners can go to jail thanks to the new bill. I believe this is the reason why we have so few decent platforms to advertise nowadays, because it's a much more risky business for owners (legally speaking).I agree that parents should supervise their bloody kids properly and let the grown ups get on with it, but the issue is more complex, individuals have been known to be exploited on certain websites and the government wants these platforms to properly supervise their content to make sure it doesn't happen. As long as women are freely advertising by their own will and giving the proper paperwork to demonstrate this is the case I don't think there will be any changes, most likely sites will hide explicit nudes or hide them in private galleries etc... Maybe a slight nuisance for some but nothing really earth shaking...
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I believe when it comes to prostitution sites
Ana, I believe all kinds of things; that doesn't make any of them true.
Please post a direct quote from the relevant section of the Online Safety Bill which substantiates this, since none of the previous posters who have carefully read the whole thing managed to spot it. If you can't then stop scaremongering as it's really not helpful.
Again, that's the Online Safety Bill, aka the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is not SOSTA, or FESTA and it is certainly not Backpage (which is now so long gone at least one poster upthread had never even heard of it) and I don't understand why you keep bringing them up? We are not in the US, or Qatar, or any other puritannical country that also outlaws prostitution. Online. Safety. Bill. UK.
Stay on topic or your posts will be removed because they're misleading to other posters and derailing the thread. And for the second time in a week, can we please use some bloody paragraphs?
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Hi Amy,
Sorry for posting about Backpage legal issues and SESTA/FOSTA but seems like it all started there a few years ago, I'm fully aware this thread is about the online safety bill. I was not trying to scaremonger anyone by any means, The point I was trying to make is how website owners will be held accountable for their content with the new online safety bill, I'm copy+pasting a paragraph taken from the website of a known UK law firm explaining it:
"With the introduction of this bill, companies that provide online sharing and interaction services will now be held more accountable for their users’ safety, bringing an unprecedented level of security to their platforms. It will require companies such as social media platforms, search engines and messaging services to prevent the spread of harmful material via their services actively".
I believe I cannot post links (?) but this is were I copy+pasted the paragraph from:
[removed as this is not from the Online Safety Bill]
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Ofcom consultation:
Guidance for service providers publishing pornographic content.
Quick note: you can see the whole documents on Ofcom website ("home"-then head to "Consultation")
"Currently, services publishing pornographic content online do not have sufficient measures in place to prevent children from accessing this content. Many grant children access to pornographic content without age checks, or by relying on checks that only require the user to confirm that they are over the age of 18.
The Online Safety Act is clear that service providers publishing pornographic content online must implement age assurance which is highly effective at correctly determining whether or not a user is a child to prevent children from normally encountering their online pornographic content.
This consultation focuses on our draft guidance to assist providers of online services that publish or display regulated provider pornographic content in complying with their age assurance and record-keeping duties under the Act."
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What do they class as “porn “
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According to the definition of the law, pornographic content is "content of a nature that can reasonably be assumed to have been produced exclusively or primarily for the purpose of sexual excitement".
"Pornographic content can include any content that falls under the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) category R18, which is 'primarily works of explicit sexual consent or strong fetish material involving adults.'
"However, other content of a strong sexual nature, aimed at sexual arousal or incitement, which would not fall under this classification, may also be treated as pornography."
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What do they class as “porn “
Ankles for earrings and nips on show?
Edited to correct typo.
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From a general/practical POV it's normally detailed or closeup depictions of genitals and/or sexual acts. Topless pictures/non explicit nudes wouldn't count.
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Ankles for earrings and nips on show?
I would assume it's anything with private bits on show, full breasts, vagina, bumhole etc.
[quote fixed]
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You don’t even have to verify your AW number anymore unless you want to do phone chat / instant messaging
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One thing I read about verifying was that you could verify on a verification app ( like yotti) and once verified on there you can use a link from the app to confirm your verified
So you could use the app to verify that you’re over 18 for gambling &playing the national lottery and by doing this it would confirm that your over 18 so can watch porn 😂
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Whilst this has been distracting, the Human Trafficking report has been published containing some very concerning recommendations including mention of advertising websites. Some of the recommendations are fair enough but the general message is customers drive demand, and the phrase 'sex work' should not be used.