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Author Topic: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites  (Read 16732 times)

seraphine

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #90 on: 08 July 2018, 11:25:46 am »
To conservatives, thrashing sex workers appeals to married women. To liberals, thrashing clients as abusers appeals to the men who can't afford it.

Excellent comment  :D

seraphine

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #91 on: 08 July 2018, 12:04:46 pm »
Another idea - perhaps it would be good to SELL decrim - just like any other product/ fashion etc.
And create social following/ alliance based on this?
Approach it as a marketing/ PR thing?   

I think this would give far more leverage than just marching/ writing petitions etc.
More effective, more creative.

A marketing campaign instead of political struggle.

Good branding, good selling... - sex workers as winners, not victims.
« Last Edit: 08 July 2018, 12:11:04 pm by 80s synthetic »

MsRedhead

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #92 on: 08 July 2018, 02:51:47 pm »


Gerard Batten of UKiP.
My point is - it's worth to build an alliance with people based on how much they care about freedom instead of paying attention to their political affiliation.

Adding to this - as Kay mentioned earlier, if you don't have a website already, get one and start building your newsletter/ mailing list.

Gerard Batten isn't just UKIP though, he speaks at Tommy Robinson marches. We can't ally ourselves with people who oppose the rights of immigrant sex workers and sex workers of colour.

seraphine

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #93 on: 08 July 2018, 04:24:49 pm »
Gerard Batten isn't just UKIP though, he speaks at Tommy Robinson marches. We can't ally ourselves with people who oppose the rights of immigrant sex workers and sex workers of colour.

Okay.
I have a different view.
I think that not accepting someone's support is:
1. Not pragmatic
2. Being as closed-minded as Sarah Champion
For decrim, I would gratefully embrace support even from Jeremy Corbyn :D If he decided to actually support us.

I'm not that into politics, so might have missed information.
Could you please give me an example of where Gerard Batten or Tommy Robinson oppose the rights of workers of colour? That's absolutely unacceptable.
I won't comment of the issue of immigrant workers (just for the record I am an immigrant myself), because that's not the issue here.
The issue is legality of sex work - allowing a group of people who chose this industry, to work - i.e. run their business and contribute to society, instead of asking for a handout.

My idea would be to embrace the market and go the marketing/ PR route instead of political narrative. Embrace the market and be proactive instead of waiting for the political figureheads to make decisions for us.
Create a really, really good website for decrim and use every visual/ marketing way to promote it and engage with the wide public. With real life stories, with really good photos and easy way that people could express their support (like including AW profiles, embeding Twitter etc, etc...).
Very clear, very pretty and engaging website. It shouldn't be that hard to sell sex, right? ;)
Get support from people/ social following, gain the momentum, take support from everyone who is sympathetic to this cause and cares about liberty.
There is only as much petitions and marches can do.
Marketing/ social media/ press - that's how we can gain the power and upper hand.
But yea. Being publicly supportive of Tommy Robinson is a PR/ social suicide. I am fully aware of this.

ana30

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #94 on: 08 July 2018, 04:37:52 pm »
I fully agree with 80's.
"I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination" (heard it on the tube)

ParisB

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #95 on: 08 July 2018, 04:54:49 pm »
Surely if the Uk went full decrim it would be disastrous for independent escorts mainly  it would probably benefit the punters pimps and traffickers more than the escorts
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany


Yes you might get it were 3/4 escorts could share a flat legally which would be great but you would most likely end up with the super brothels like Germany where you would have little choice over services,  hours for work and the like. 

From what I have read In places like Germany where it's decriminalised you mainly have the super brothels,  prices are as low as fuck and trafficking hasn't lessened its increased as there is no crime against pimping as such  . Woman are still being trafficked to work in such super brothels but now it's pretty much  perfectly legal and ignored

Read up on the realities of full decrim in Germany and see if you want it in the U.K.
A partial decrim to allow a small group of escorts to work together would be great but if you really want Super brothels then nope I don't agree with full decrim  they way it is in Germany at present

Personally I think the uk will go down the Nordic Model Route to begin with
   
« Last Edit: 08 July 2018, 04:56:35 pm by ParisB »

amy

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #96 on: 08 July 2018, 05:04:35 pm »
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany

Germany doesn't have decriminalisation, it has legalisation. This means government regulation/control and is as bad if not worse than criminalisation - it is categorically not the same thing and not what any organisation I know of is campaigning for.

Under legalisation, sex work is controlled by the government and is legal only under certain state-specified conditions. Decriminalisation involves the removal of all prostitution-specific laws, although sex workers and sex work businesses must still operate within the laws of the land, as must any businesses. This is the New Zealand model, not the German one.
Billy Butcher is my spirit animal

ParisB

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #97 on: 08 July 2018, 05:21:46 pm »
Germany doesn't have decriminalisation, it has legalisation. This means government regulation/control and is as bad if not worse than criminalisation - it is categorically not the same thing and not what any organisation I know of is campaigning for.

Under legalisation, sex work is controlled by the government and is legal only under certain state-specified conditions. Decriminalisation involves the removal of all prostitution-specific laws, although sex workers and sex work businesses must still operate within the laws of the land, as must any businesses. This is the New Zealand model, not the German one.
.

Thank you Amy for that it's all pretty confusing to read I need to put my glasses on and start again 😂
So Germany has legalisation
NZ has Full Decrim
That explains the Super Brothels in Germany then and the articles I have been reading
I hope that the UK doesn't follow Germany then 
« Last Edit: 08 July 2018, 05:27:22 pm by ParisB »

MsRedhead

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #98 on: 08 July 2018, 05:25:18 pm »
I fully agree with 80's.

i suggest googling what he said at tommy robinson's "day of freedom". the man is an odious islamophobe and racist. We can't accept just anyone's support. if the KKK supported decrim of sex work, we wouldn't align with them.

MsRedhead

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #99 on: 08 July 2018, 05:27:31 pm »
Surely if the Uk went full decrim it would be disastrous for independent escorts mainly  it would probably benefit the punters pimps and traffickers more than the escorts
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany


Yes you might get it were 3/4 escorts could share a flat legally which would be great but you would most likely end up with the super brothels like Germany where you would have little choice over services,  hours for work and the like. 

From what I have read In places like Germany where it's decriminalised you mainly have the super brothels,  prices are as low as fuck and trafficking hasn't lessened its increased as there is no crime against pimping as such  . Woman are still being trafficked to work in such super brothels but now it's pretty much  perfectly legal and ignored

Read up on the realities of full decrim in Germany and see if you want it in the U.K.
A partial decrim to allow a small group of escorts to work together would be great but if you really want Super brothels then nope I don't agree with full decrim  they way it is in Germany at present

Personally I think the uk will go down the Nordic Model Route to begin with
 


Germany doesn't have full decrim. It has legalisation. Very few people in the UK want legalisation.

Trafficking levels aren't affected by any model of sex work (source anti slavery international). No-one is asking for decrim of trafficking.

MsRedhead

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #100 on: 08 July 2018, 05:29:08 pm »



My idea would be to embrace the market and go the marketing/ PR route instead of political narrative. Embrace the market and be proactive instead of waiting for the political figureheads to make decisions for us.
Create a really, really good website for decrim and use every visual/ marketing way to promote it and engage with the wide public. With real life stories, with really good photos and easy way that people could express their support (like including AW profiles, embeding Twitter etc, etc...).
Very clear, very pretty and engaging website. It shouldn't be that hard to sell sex, right? ;)
Get support from people/ social following, gain the momentum, take support from everyone who is sympathetic to this cause and cares about liberty.
There is only as much petitions and marches can do.
Marketing/ social media/ press - that's how we can gain the power and upper hand.
But yea. Being publicly supportive of Tommy Robinson is a PR/ social suicide. I am fully aware of this.

we need to do both. not one or the other. If you feel passionately about this, why not get involved with one of the myriad of groups working on this and offer your time?

amy

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #101 on: 08 July 2018, 05:36:36 pm »
So Germany has legalisation

That's right :).

Legalisation means things like mandatory registration, being told where and when you can work and what services you can offer, government interference in how you have your health checks and where and general discrimination - in some places sex workers personal information has been used to threaten and blackmail them by corrupt authorities, and in others anybody registered as a sex worker have some personal freedoms restricted. It isn't what anybody wants, not even the antis.

Decrim means that we have to comply with the same laws as everybody else does when they're working, but there aren't specific ones made up just for us and our customers. So if you and I decided to buy a flat for work to be safer and miss fewer calls and so on, it would be no different than if we were mechanics and wanted to buy a garage to work in together so we could be safer if there was an accident and book in MOTs and stuff. At the moment one is unlawful and the other isn't, which is completely stupid.
Billy Butcher is my spirit animal

ana30

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #102 on: 08 July 2018, 05:47:31 pm »

Germany doesn't have full decrim. It has legalisation. Very few people in the UK want legalisation.

Trafficking levels aren't affected by any model of sex work (source anti slavery international). No-one is asking for decrim of trafficking.

Not sure about that.

Spain. In spain the big brothels are allowed (like in germany), you have them all over the country and they're incredibly popular. The french girl who posted on this thread is right, there's many on the French border (la jonquera- basque country-), and they attract thousands of French men who cross the border daily into Spain only to visit these massive bordellos with hundreds of girls to choose from then go back to france. They can have sex for a very cheap price. This attracts trafficking mafias big time. These mafias work in conjuction with the Spanish bordello owners and brings them girls from poor countries, mainly Latin america, Russia, Africa and eastern Europe. That's where they get recruited by the traffickers. By the way: These women know perfectly what they are coming for, so there's no "forced anything". They're coming to make big quick bucks $$$ then go home and tell their family they went on some sort of turistic trip to Spain. Yes, they do need to give the trafficker a cut for bringing them to Spain or germany and getting them a job in the bordello.

If these big bordellos didn't existed the trafficking mafias would need to find another job. all the above is unheard of in the UK.
« Last Edit: 08 July 2018, 05:58:38 pm by Ana30 »
"I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination" (heard it on the tube)

MsRedhead

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #103 on: 08 July 2018, 05:51:34 pm »
Not sure about that.

Spain. In spain the big brothels are allowed (like in germany), you have them all over the country and they're incredibly popular. The french girl who posted on this thread is right, there's many on the French border (la jonquera- basque country-), and they attract thousands of French men who cross the border daily into Spain only to visit these massive bordellos with hundreds of girls to choose from then go back to france. They can have sex for a very cheap price. This attracts trafficking mafias big time. These mafias work in conjuction with the Spanish bordello owners and brings them girls from poor countries, mainly Latin america, Russia, Africa and eastern Europe. That's where they get recruited by the traffickers. By the way: These women know perfectly what they are coming for, so there's no "forced anything".

If these big bordellos didn't existed the trafficking mafias would need to find another job.

I think that the world's oldest human rights organisation may know a thing or two.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/justice-2011-2016/human-trafficking-bill/written-submissions/anti-slavery-international.pdf

Just look at Dubai. fully criminalised, harsh penalties and trafficking is rife.

ana30

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Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
« Reply #104 on: 08 July 2018, 06:17:47 pm »
I think that the world's oldest human rights organisation may know a thing or two.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/justice-2011-2016/human-trafficking-bill/written-submissions/anti-slavery-international.pdf

Just look at Dubai. fully criminalised, harsh penalties and trafficking is rife.

Yes, Dubai prostitution might be "fully criminalized" (cough-cough) but all the big hotels and bars are packed with tons of WG's so deep down the law is extremely permissive which makes that "fully criminalized" thingy pretty laughable.
"I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination" (heard it on the tube)