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General Category => Politics and academic/media queries => Topic started by: ana30 on 30 June 2018, 09:01:43 pm

Title: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 30 June 2018, 09:01:43 pm
Article copied and paste from "The guardian: today:


Outlaw prostitution websites to protect enslaved and trafficked women, say MPs

Online advertisements accessible in the UK are at the heart of a sex industry with organised crime links, Commons group hears

Ministers will come under intense pressure from a cross-party group of MPs this week to follow the US by banning so-called “prostitution websites” amid mounting evidence that they are enabling a huge growth in sexual exploitation and the trafficking of women to the UK for profit.

Members of the all-party group on prostitution have secured a parliamentary debate during which they will demand that the Home Office acts to make websites such as Vivastreet and Adultwork accountable under law for encouraging and profiting from sexual exploitation.

The websites make money by placing advertisements on behalf of gangs and individuals running networks of women, many of whom are trafficked from abroad. Vivastreet operates in 19 countries and is owned by an offshore holding company based in Jersey. Adultwork is registered in Panama.
We must stop abuse by criminalising punters

A recent inquiry by the all-party group heard evidence from the Joint Slavery and Trafficking Analysis Centre – a multi-agency intelligence unit set up by the police, the government, and the National Crime Agency – which concluded that “adult services websites represent the most significant enabler of sexual exploitation in the UK”.

This was because the sites are at the heart of a money-spinning online industry that allows running networks of women to connect with men who want to buy sex. Investigators believe much of the profit made by those managing the women is then used to fund a wider network under which vulnerable women are sought out abroad and systematically trafficked to the UK.
Advertisement

Amid rising outrage about the use of such websites, US President Donald Trump signed a bill earlier this year that gives federal and state prosecutors greater power to act against platforms that make money out of such advertisements. The bill also enables victims and state attorneys general to file lawsuits against the sites.

The MPs say it is now crucial that the Home Office follows the US and changes the law in the UK to make such websites directly accountable under law for encouraging exploitation and trafficking. They will demand swift action from Theresa May, who made action to stamp out modern slavery a top priority of her time at the Home Office and reiterated the same commitment on entering Downing Street.

Sarah Champion, MP for Rotherham and a member of the all-party group, said she would attend the debate and press whichever Home Office minister represents the government to follow America’s swift action. “UK legislation needs to be radically overhauled to keep pace with the changing face of prostitution,” Champion said. “We need to update our laws to make websites legally accountable for facilitating and profiting from sexual exploitation. The idea that commercial prostitution sites make it safer for women is not true.”

Diane Martin, who was awarded a CBE for services to vulnerable women and survived trafficking and prostitution in her late teens, now supports exploited women. “As a survivor, my perspective means firsthand experience of the realities of prostitution,” she said. “My years of supporting hundreds women to exit prostitution has also only strengthened my fervent belief that we are failing some of the most vulnerable women in society unless we address the demand of the buyers and the greed of the pimps.

“Currently, UK legislation is inadequate to deal with this. I want to call on MPs, and all with the power to make positive change, to see the reality of prostitution, to be on the side of the most vulnerable and to adopt an approach where pimps, brothel owners and third-party exploiters are not tolerated.”


Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: xw5 on 01 July 2018, 12:40:37 am
It's not 'the government', it's a few MPs and (without having checked, so just like them) probably peers. If I were an MP and could find a couple of others, I could have an 'All-party group on Sondheim', issue a report saying that Andrew Lloyd-Webber musicals should be banned and it'd get this sort of coverage.

In both cases, it's a group with an agenda - this bunch start from the position that they hate prostitution and their reports have been brutally taken apart by academics for being crap.

That doesn't mean that nothing will happen, just that it's very unlikely. To help, find the analysis of their latest one and send it to your MP.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 01 July 2018, 02:35:13 am
On Wednesday afternoon, Sarah Champion MP is bringing a debate to parliament with a view to outlaw prostitution platforms. This is akin to the recent FOSTA-SESTA package signed into US law by Donald Trump, which saw the removal of many online advertising platforms sex workers used to stay alive. Read the full SWARM statement on FOSTA-SESTA here: https://www.swarmcollective.org/blog/2018/3/26/swarm-opposes-sesta-fosta

This law will NOT decrease trafficking, but instead give abusers more power as workers are forced to lower rates, increase services, and work on the street to make up for earnings lost through the removal of these platforms.

Online platforms are a LIFELINE for us. Removing them removes a life-saving barrier between us and dangerous clients. This law is murder.

Please show your support for sex workers. Help defend against this. Meet at 1pm on Wednesday 4th July at Parliament Square. Bring placards, red umbrellas, masks for anonymity if you need, and most of all your energy and your anger!

I can send the Facebook link to anyone who wants it xx
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Lotus300 on 01 July 2018, 02:36:59 am
This kind of article irritates me deeply. Almost every sentence is an insult to the women we are and every sentence is far from reality.

What is this terminology that systematically replaces the words "sex workers" with "victims of exploitation" and the word "client" with "abuser"?

It reminds me of what Winston Churchill said: "Using the language of the enemy is the beginning of defeat".

I hope XW5 is right but I have often noticed that Britain has the annoying habit of imitating the USA.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: NikitaS on 01 July 2018, 11:37:09 am
I don't feel abused, to me prostitution is an art form. It can be quite enjoyable for all involved. Unfortunately, we are between a hammer and a hard place.

To conservatives, thrashing sex workers appeals to married women. To liberals, thrashing clients as abusers appeals to the men who can't afford it.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MissStar on 02 July 2018, 10:43:19 am
Would us all writing to our local MP help?

I'm not political but I've heard this before. Us non-trafficked, happy hookers need to be heard.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Nora batty on 02 July 2018, 12:50:34 pm
There're are likely higher numbers of people being trafficked into slavery in hotels and the food industry, but there's no one screaming let's close all the hotels and restaurants.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: loveheart169 on 02 July 2018, 01:12:11 pm
I read this yesterday online and it's hard not to get upset and angry at the idea that adult work could be shut down. The feedback system is a lifesaver! This line gets me- “We need to update our laws to make websites legally accountable for facilitating and profiting from sexual exploitation. The idea that commercial prostitution sites make it safer for women is not true.”  NOT TRUE? It IS true actually  :FF :FF :FF :FF sex work and trafficking are not the same thing  :FF :FF

I really hope we do not follow the USA with this. I can't get to London on Wednesday but if i lived there I would go.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 02 July 2018, 01:59:48 pm
Would us all writing to our local MP help?

I'm not political but I've heard this before. Us non-trafficked, happy hookers need to be heard.

you can do this here. https://scotpep.eaction.org.uk/lobby/safetynotcriminalisation

This in't about happy hookers vs trafficked people. Most worker are somewhere in the middle. hating your job doesn't mean you don't deserve rights and the most marginalised will be harmed by this law.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Seamstress on 03 July 2018, 10:51:22 am
It's like blaming Gumtree for people getting scammed with dodgy goods or services

(Which is in no way to minimise the very real and very distressing problem of exploitation, but in general historically such measures only ever serve to impact and curtail legitimate interests, the dodgy stuff always (and quickly) finds another way)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 03 July 2018, 04:58:34 pm
Oh well... Drugs dealers are shipping drugs through fedex and people are dying from overdoses because of it, so why don't they shut down fedex for "enabling the deaths of young people"?

Apply this to escort sites.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 03 July 2018, 07:29:21 pm
I just had news today that the MP Sarah Champion is trying to gain approval to ban advertising in the UK. First the USA, then France (last week) and will we be next and if so when??? This is FRIGHTENING!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 03 July 2018, 07:33:30 pm
^^^^^
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: UKdomme on 03 July 2018, 09:16:35 pm
I am sick to death of all the hate towards us now, FOSTA/SESTA in the US, some countries criminalizing clients, it fees like their wanting to put us all in danger, but making it sound to the public like their just trying to save us.  Its obvious all they will do if they succeed is drive independent sexworkers to the pimps/traffickers if they are no longer able to advertise on places like Adultwork.  Do they want more deaths and assaults on sex workers, because it feels like it to me, and they know that's what will happen 100%, any idiot with half a brain knows that, and its been proven that happens in countries who put these insane laws in.

Here in the Uk we have enough problems with Brexit which is proving to be a total cock up (whichever side your on), austerity, NHS and god knows how many other important issues and we have a bunch of idiot MP's focusing on this?  Where are their priorities.

Sorry if this is a rant, but I am so fed up of this now as a tax paying business woman who happens to be a sex worker.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Nova on 03 July 2018, 09:22:07 pm
Will AW not get round it by saying people don't advertise sex, they get paid for their time?
It is a likes list and not a services list, after all.  :angel:
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: FTP on 03 July 2018, 10:20:48 pm
Well I for one will most certainly be protesting tomorrow. I'm not usually political but I won't stand by and do nothing whilst women in power make decisions for my industry without even considering us.

I get that trafficking is an issue and I would never condone that but all I ask is that they take into consideration that a large portion of this industry is consensual. I'm pretty sure given the chance we would all do our part to put an end to trafficking if we were put in the picture.

Most of us are strong independent women who don't want or need to be treated like a poor vulnerable woman who needs "saving".
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 03 July 2018, 10:35:36 pm
it's not to late to email your MP (link in this thread) or join us in Westminster tomorrow!

There is also a national decrim strategy after the protest so DM me if you want the details of that

xx
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 03 July 2018, 11:57:57 pm
If anyone wants to DM me short statements about the impact a ban on online advertising would have on them, that'd be great. They'll be read out (anonymously!) at the protest tomorrow x
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ladyofthemansion on 04 July 2018, 06:07:28 am
I can see us going backwards to newspaper ads and brothels. Much as I don’t like Adultwork, they helped women go independent.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Kazzle on 04 July 2018, 07:31:20 am
There's an article about it on the BBC website which makes for grim reading as to what Sarah Champion is trying to achieve - https :// www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44685056

She's also on Radio 4's Woman's Hour today at 10am explaining her stance if you fancy feeling your blood pressure rise.



Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Shwiftysquancher91 on 04 July 2018, 07:51:04 am
I don’t think much will affect the outcome with what actually happens in Parliament today but I think it’s important to be involved to show that we do infact care about our livelihood and there might be more of us than people realised. Also more importantly possibly speaking for those who can’t make it or are quite marginalised who don’t have the support and online platforms are the only way they can advertise safely. Looking forward to hearing from NUM and I think it’s going to be quite positive. Look forward to maybe seeing you guys there too (without realising it  ::)).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: English Massage on 04 July 2018, 08:10:26 am
Closing the website down won't stop that though, it's a bad idea, while people are advertising freely online the trafficking and exploitation teams can browse the girls and get the info they need, by pushing it offline they will have no way of monitoring it. It's the most absurd suggestion that  closing down websites will help cut it out.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 04 July 2018, 10:09:33 am
So they want us to go back to the streets then? Or working for pimps in the saunas?

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Phoenix on 04 July 2018, 10:12:50 am
Did any of you catch this I wonder?
It will be available on catchup from 11am today..
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 04 July 2018, 10:57:48 am
I listened to this brief broadcast.
Champion says that, according to a particular source (whose name I have forgotten), online advertising platforms for sex workers fuel sex trafficking. 
She also affirmed her commitment to having the buying of sex criminalised.
Her justification for her stance on prostitution (or rather, what she sees as prostitution) is her experience of sex trafficking victims in her 5 years as an MP.
She cited the case of one lady (who I will call Miss X), for instance, who, according to her, has been engaged with prostitution most of her life (including her pre-adult life) and has over 200 prostitution-related convictions.  Miss X has complained that not one man, in contrast, who has been involved with her prostitution has been subject to a criminal conviction.

*** 

Personally, I take away from Champion's views that, as many of us have already deduced, she believes that ALL prostitutes are victims of trafficking.  To her, then, the logical conclusion from this view is that prostitution IS sex trafficking; there is no such thing as a consenting, autonomously-engaged seller of sex.  I don't think she has even attempted to test the truth in this (by seeking contact with prostitutes rather than with victims of sexual exploitation, to be exact).  Champion's ignorant and biased views should not be used as a basis for any legislation relating to prostitution, then, I say.  (This does not mean that they won't be, I am aware).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 04 July 2018, 11:30:11 am
The arguments against Adultwork are absolutely hillarious. How can they say that its involved with trafficking? If they only knew how hard that site is to join!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 04 July 2018, 11:57:42 am
Late last night, I rushed the following response and emailed it to my local MP directly:

***

I understand that a proposal to close down online advertising platforms for sex workers, led by Sarah Champion MP in alliance with the APPGP, is due to be debated in Parliament tomorrow (Wednesday 4th July 2018).  I write to you to request you to convey the following views in the debate.

1.  As far as I am aware, Sarah Champion's proposal stems from her commitment to the anti-sex trafficking cause.  Given that a) sex traffickers are, in general, unlikely to be advertising the services of their victims online (for obvious reasons), in my view, and that b) as far as I am aware, the vast majority of sex workers are consenting, autonomously-engaged prostitutes (like myself, for instance), I cannot see how the closing down of prostitution advertising websites can be justified.

2.  In keeping with 1, if sex-traffickers are indeed using online advertising platforms, then the relevant authorities should find it easy to catch them and prosecute them.  Prostitution advertising websites, then, are in fact vital tools in the fight against sexual slavery.  Closing such sites down will only drive sex traffickers who actually use them underground (along with autonomously-engaged prostitutes, I fear, as I explain in 3 below), making it much more difficult to catch them.

3.  Online advertising platforms are, in the vast majority of cases (as I understand it), a prostitute's lifeline.  Without www.adultwork.com (and other websites), many of us will lose our livelihood overnight which may drive a large number of us directly into the highly exploitative clutches of greedy, unscrupulous pimps and brothel-keepers*, the eradication of sexual exploitation being no less, contradictorily enough, the aim of the exercise.  In view of the obvious contradiction, as I see it, between the purpose of shutting down prostitution advertising websites and the potential consequences of this measure, once again, I personally deem this measure wholly unjustifiable.

4.  I am under the impression that exploited, voiceless workers are more likely to be found working in nail bars, car washes and in the cleaning industry, for instance, than in the sex industry.  There is no talk, naturally, of closing down online advertising platforms for the recruitment of nail technicians, car wash workers, and cleaners.  Neither should there be for online advertising platforms for sex workers, then, in my view (and to my mind, working excessive hours - in a physically demanding job - for significantly less than the minimum wage and living, consequently in squalor - and despair - is not far behind being forced to have sex to pay for someone else's living])

5.  Online advertising platforms often present feedback on customers from prostitutes which is one of our means of keeping ourselves safe.  Closing down these platforms, then, will, as you can see, close down this method of "self-defence", so to speak, for prostitutes, rendering us more vulnerable to harm.  Again, I fail to see how this can be justified.

6.  Consenting adults should have the right, freedom, and ease to buy and sell sex, in my opinion.  To try to undermine and obstruct this right is to treat adults like children in my view.  Once again, there is no justification whatsoever for this.

7.  The fact that another country has banned online advertising platforms for sex workers does not make it right to do so.  Many prostitutes based in the USA are suffering the consequences that I presented in 3, as far as I am aware.  Similarly, in the USA, capital punishment exists.  We are hardly going to follow that practice, I believe.

*There are some respectable, fair, and professional procurers, and they should be allowed, in my view, to fulfill their role in the sex industry with full legality.  Sadly, where procuring is concerned, such parties represent the minority of procurers.

Thank you for your attention.
Naomi Dixon

***

After listening to the broadcast of this morning of Sarah Champion MP, I used the link provided in this thread to re-email my local MP with the following message:

***

In a broadcast on Radio 4 this morning itself, Champion says that, according to a particular source (whose name I have forgotten), online advertising platforms for sex workers fuel sex trafficking.  She also affirmed her commitment to having the buying of sex criminalised.

Champion's justification for her stance on prostitution (or rather, what she sees as prostitution) is her experience of sex trafficking victims in her 5 years as an MP.  She cited the case of one lady (who I will call Miss X), for instance, who, according to her, has been engaged with prostitution most of her life (including her pre-adult life) and has over 200 prostitution-related criminal convictions.  Miss X has complained that not one man, in contrast, who has been involved with her prostitution (in whatever way) has been subject to a criminal conviction.

Personally, I take away from Champion's views that she believes that ALL prostitutes are victims of trafficking.  To her, then, the logical conclusion from this view is that prostitution IS sex trafficking; there is no such thing as a consenting, autonomously-engaged seller of sex.  I don't think she has even attempted to test the truth in this (by seeking contact with prostitutes rather than with victims of sexual exploitation, to be exact).  Moreover, Champion's views are at odds with the law itself (as it currently stands) which makes a clear distinction between prostitution and sex trafficking.  For one thing, prostitution is legal.  Sex trafficking, along with all other forms of slavery (as well as all attendant offences like kidnap, false imprisonment, GBH, and rape), in stark contrast, is not.

Champion's markedly ignorant and biased views should not be used as a basis for any legislation relating to prostitution, then, I say. 

In any event, if sex traffickers are using online trafficking platforms to advertise the services of their victims, this makes it easy for them to be caught and prosecuted, in my view.   Prostitution advertising websites, then, are, in fact, a vital tool in the fight against sexual slavery.  (Personally, I feel that only a small proportion of the adverts on www.adultwork.com and other sex worker advertising websites come from sex traffickers [for obvious reasons].  This means that closing down such websites will generally hurt not perpetrators of sexual exploitation but rather willing, autonomously-engaged prostitutes [of which I am one, as I say]).

For the reasons presented a) above, b) in my email to you from late last night, and c) in the message below (provided by Scotpep), I urge you to both understand (and advocate) that closing down online advertising platforms for sex workers is not the way to tackle sexual slavery.  Full decriminalisation of sex work is.

***

I then added the template message from Scotpep.

As others have said in this thread, our voices may well make no difference, but at least we will know that we tried.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 04 July 2018, 12:20:42 pm
Late last night, I rushed the following response and emailed it to my local MP directly:

***


Thank you for doing that Braziliana.

We should all follow her example instead of limiting our outrage to saafe forum... :-X
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ellarose on 04 July 2018, 12:40:54 pm
This probably sounds a bit silly but I'm a bit confused with all of the politics! Hoping someone could help me understand?

If this debate has the outcome that it's agreed websites should be outlawed; does that mean the sites will be shut down tonight? Or are there more processes to get it through parliament? Just trying to work out if I need to make some emergency plans this afternoon to keep my safe clients if my profile is going to disappear suddenly and I can't vet clients properly. 

Sorry if this is a silly question, I've been trying to work out what's happening and I've read all of the articles I can find and I've found the link to watch the debate live but I'm still a bit muddled!

 
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: M_3 on 04 July 2018, 12:45:06 pm
'' A Bill is a proposed law which is introduced into Parliament. Once a Bill has been debated and then approved by each House of Parliament, and has received Royal Assent, it becomes law and is known as an Act. ''



''The passage of a piece of legislation from start to finish can be as short as a few days to as long as several years. Overall, the "average" time is about a year.''
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 04 July 2018, 01:24:07 pm
Thanks Braziliana. What a contribution!

Maybe we should all come together and create a template to send off to our MP's? This would help ladies who otherwise would not write a letter to simply copy paste and send it off.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Kay on 04 July 2018, 02:06:47 pm
If SC gets her ultimate wish, prostitution would become illegal (as I understand it), so brothels and parlours would become legitimate targets, whereas nowadays the police often turn a blind eye if they're low key and don't annoy the neighbours. We'd have to follow the US pattern and use ridiculous euphemisms.

Would certainly suggested creating your own website, even if it needs to be heavily edited if any nightmare scenario comes to pass.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: xw5 on 04 July 2018, 03:06:21 pm
Comments on the last time this bunch were in the news:

https://www.swrh.co.uk/blog/pop-up-brothels-and-the-appg-report-into-prostitution
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 04 July 2018, 03:08:18 pm
Thanks Braziliana. What a contribution!

Maybe we should all come together and create a template to send off to our MP's? This would help ladies who otherwise would not write a letter to simply copy paste and send it off.

Thank you, Ana.  Whether it will actually make any difference, though, is another matter.

As for a templated response, young Ms Redhead provided the following link to one from Scotpep (which I used):  https://scotpep.eaction.org.uk/lobby/safetynotcriminalisation  It is possibly too late to write in with the aim of influencing the outcome of today's debate, though.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Shwiftysquancher91 on 04 July 2018, 03:22:45 pm
Was a great protest, a good turn out and was wonderful seeing such solidarity between all sex workers who turned up. We were not able to protest on the greenery but I overheard and attendant clearing the ground saying he had never met such well mannered and nice protesters! I’ve never been prouder to be a part of this community.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: misscleo on 04 July 2018, 03:35:41 pm
Was a great protest, a good turn out and was wonderful seeing such solidarity between all sex workers who turned up. We were not able to protest on the greenery but I overheard and attendant clearing the ground saying he had never met such well mannered and nice protesters! I’ve never been prouder to be a part of this community.

Good on you babe. Do we know when we ll hear the results of this, i have the parliment channel on but they're debating the ivory trade.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 04 July 2018, 04:10:02 pm
Was a great protest, a good turn out and was wonderful seeing such solidarity between all sex workers who turned up...
Thank you for giving up your time to stand up for us all, SS.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 04 July 2018, 04:11:16 pm
Do we know when we ll hear the results of this...
I would like to know this too, if anyone has the answer.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ladyofthemansion on 04 July 2018, 04:40:01 pm
If worst came to worst and AW and other sites were closed down then when would this actually happen??

For example, two years ago Parliament decided to make it unlawful for letting agents in England to charge fees to tenants but it’s still not been actioned.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: barbie88 on 04 July 2018, 06:57:59 pm
If adult work gets shut down I wouldn’t be able to cam any more it’s the main cam site I’m on so many ladies will be out of work this is a worry xxx

I’m guessing if it is made official it won’t be put in place for a couple of years . I don’t think the government are that stupid think how much money in taxes they would loose that’s what they mainly care bout any way xx

I’m guessing that means viva street will go too xx
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 04 July 2018, 09:16:48 pm
Was a great protest, a good turn out and was wonderful seeing such solidarity between all sex workers who turned up. We were not able to protest on the greenery but I overheard and attendant clearing the ground saying he had never met such well mannered and nice protesters! I’ve never been prouder to be a part of this community.

Thank you for the contribution <3
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 04 July 2018, 09:21:08 pm
If worst came to worst and AW and other sites were closed down then when would this actually happen??

For example, two years ago Parliament decided to make it unlawful for letting agents in England to charge fees to tenants but it’s still not been actioned.


If it does go through lets hope it is a few years by which time I have retired and other Ladies can come up with an alternative strategy.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 04 July 2018, 11:13:17 pm
over 3000 people emailed their MPs! about 200 people came to the protest! thank you! this is just the beginning. There's a thread on the strike4decrim movement, there's a push to have workers unionise too. Please keep lobbying your MPs! Labour members, please go to your local meetings and take decrim motions to them.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 04 July 2018, 11:14:06 pm
This probably sounds a bit silly but I'm a bit confused with all of the politics! Hoping someone could help me understand?

If this debate has the outcome that it's agreed websites should be outlawed; does that mean the sites will be shut down tonight? Or are there more processes to get it through parliament? Just trying to work out if I need to make some emergency plans this afternoon to keep my safe clients if my profile is going to disappear suddenly and I can't vet clients properly. 

Sorry if this is a silly question, I've been trying to work out what's happening and I've read all of the articles I can find and I've found the link to watch the debate live but I'm still a bit muddled!

no, it was just a debate. no vote.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 04 July 2018, 11:14:40 pm
'' A Bill is a proposed law which is introduced into Parliament. Once a Bill has been debated and then approved by each House of Parliament, and has received Royal Assent, it becomes law and is known as an Act. ''



''The passage of a piece of legislation from start to finish can be as short as a few days to as long as several years. Overall, the "average" time is about a year.''

there was no bill though, it was just a policy debate x
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Kristina Escort on 05 July 2018, 07:58:05 am
For those interested here is the live debate recorded

I have not yet watched it all as in internet froze last night

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/a69aef89-4ba2-4353-9399-7e08bbcc97b2

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 05 July 2018, 08:50:00 pm
I have just finished watching the debate.  The following are just my own views (and my own rant!).

All speakers were in favour of criminalising the buying of sex and of closing down prostitution websites; there was not a single opponent to these matters.  Was this to be expected despite the 3000 emails sent to local MPs, then?  (Young Ms Redhead, can you tell us more on this point?  Forgive any crassness and / or naivety on my part)

Sarah Champion MP said that to identify trafficking, like punters, police can make use of prostitution websites.  If so, why does she want such sites closed down?  As I said in my email to my local MP, in theory, these websites should make it easy to catch sex traffickers (if any such individuals are stupid enough to expose themselves in such a way in the first place).

Another speaker said that sacrificing the rights of the minority of those in prostitution, namely, consenting prostitutes, for the sake of the sexually exploited, these representing the majority of prostitutes, is a price that should be paid.  This was in answer to objections to the possibility of legislating against consensual sex between adults.  First, autonomously-engaged prostitution is one thing, sexual exploitation is another entirely.  The two should be treated as completely different and separate phenomena, in my view.  Second, if this speaker wants to play the numbers game, what proof does she have that victims of sexual exploitation vastly outnumber autonomously-engaged, consensual prostitutes?  Third, even if she is right and we happy hookers are in the minority of sex workers (not that I class sexual exploitation as sex work since I class it mainly as rape and slavery), does she really expect criminalising the buying of sex and closing down prostitution websites to significantly reduce sexual slavery?  What punters will buy will be "massages" and what we whores - along with sex traffickers, regrettably enough - will advertise will, correspondingly, be massages!  Possibly, anyway.  Or we could advertise actual escorting.  (What we escort and to where will, of course, be up to us [and our punters, naturally]).  As we know, there are already laws against sex trafficking (which include laws against rape, slavery and GBH, for instance).  Sex traffickers take no notice of these laws.  Why would they take notice of any new ones?  And how can the proposed Sex-Buyer Law mean anything other than a) creating a whole new class of criminals who are, in principle, easy to catch but who, for the most part, do no harm and b) treating adults like children?  The fact that the Sex-Buyer Law / Nordic model and / or a ban on prostitution websites is in place in some countries shows nothing more than that the governments of the countries concerned see fit to treat adults like children, as far as I am concerned (and that they see prostitutes as nothing more than scum).


All speakers are of the view that either ALL or most prostitution is sexual exploitation and that prostitution / sexual exploitation is inevitably (and invariably) a form of violence against women and girls.  Not one of them indicated having had any input from consenting, autonomously-engaged prostitutes.  They have only ever encountered victims.  Such blatant bias!  (The few, fleeting [and muffled] references to [the apparently minimal number of] "happy hookers", as I put it, make no difference whatsoever to this point since these references were made only to justify denying us our rights and freedoms).

To help fight our cause, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE complete the survey at https://sps.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/university-of-bristol-research-on-prostitution-and-sex-work  It is for a project being led by a staunch supporter of the FUCKING Nordic Model (https://saafe.info/main/politics-and-academicmedia-queries/university-of-bristol-research-survey-to-inform-the-home-office-select-committee/ (https://saafe.info/main/politics-and-academicmedia-queries/university-of-bristol-research-survey-to-inform-the-home-office-select-committee/)) so it is in our interests to speak up.

The following is my own answer to question 13 in the survey which asks what it's like to be a prostitute in today's society (or something):

This past Sunday, I made £650.  (I have since been off work with my period).
This past Monday, a prostitute with whom I am acquainted reported that she was finishing a 5-day tour (namely, a visit to a location where one does not reside in order to engage with prostitution in that area) with a net profit of £1900.
Meanwhile, on her current tour, another prostitute acquaintance of mine is, according to what she tells, enjoying a run of £700+ days.

The three of us are independent, autonomously-engaged, indoors-based prostitutes*.   We all agree that we could never earn what we regularly earn as prostitutes in any other job.

(*In my own case, I can, of course, vouch for the truth in this.  As for the 2 prostitute acquaintances to whom I have alluded, personally, having had them state - whether directly or indirectly - independence and autonomy as their position as prostitutes, I believe this of them)

When I describe prostitution as both fun and financially rewarding as well as being a job of complete freedom (paradoxical as this may sound given the meaning of "job"), my punters always understand me.  They are often rather  surprised, in contrast, to hear me describe it as dignified.  When I make them aware of the vastly appreciative, friendly, and respectful manner in which they treat me, though, they immediately catch on.

Dignity, fun, freedom, and high financial rewards were all missing from my previous career.  Rampant bullying, undue pressure, and a markedly poor work-life balance were what prevailed instead.

I used to be a teacher.  I lasted 13 years (and the bullying that I suffered throughout those 13 years came from colleagues and pupils alike). 

I am 42.  I started working as a prostitute in July 2015.  As I have implied, my one and only regret about this career-change is not having made it A LOT sooner.  Moreover, from various sources of evidence (including my escort acquaintances, the SAAFE forum and numerous TV documentaries from recent years such as "My Granny the Escort",  "A Very British Brothel", "High Class Call Girls" and "The Sex Business"),  I don't believe that I am alone with this view.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Grace D on 05 July 2018, 09:02:34 pm
Good for you Brazilliana, and thanks for that link, I'll be adding my thoughts to the survey. I was outraged when Sarah Champion and Jess Phillips insisted during the debate that sex workers should be referred to as prostitutes and not sex workers. Obviously we ARE prostitutes and that label doesn't bother me these days, but I just felt it was so rude and dehumanizing of them. Make no mistake, this is a moral crusade against 'whores.' They don't care about our safety at all. Also SC contradicted her own argument when she said on Twitter that if punters can find us online then so can support services. Well, of course! Does she even know what she's arguing for?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 05 July 2018, 09:05:11 pm
...Also SC contradicted her own argument when she said on Twitter that if punters can find us online then so can support services. Well, of course! Does she even know what she's arguing for?
Exactly, ha ha!  (And, forgive the childish nature of this comment, but the woman's surname really grates on me...)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Grace D on 05 July 2018, 09:36:37 pm
Exactly, ha ha!  (And, forgive the childish nature of this comment, but the woman's surname really grates on me...)

She's a champion plonker, that's for sure  ;D
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 05 July 2018, 09:43:00 pm
She's a champion plonker, that's for sure  ;D
+1  :)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 05 July 2018, 10:30:34 pm
Good for you Brazilliana, and thanks for that link, I'll be adding my thoughts to the survey. I was outraged when Sarah Champion and Jess Phillips insisted during the debate that sex workers should be referred to as prostitutes and not sex workers. Obviously we ARE prostitutes and that label doesn't bother me these days, but I just felt it was so rude and dehumanizing of them. Make no mistake, this is a moral crusade against 'whores.' They don't care about our safety at all. Also SC contradicted her own argument when she said on Twitter that if punters can find us online then so can support services. Well, of course! Does she even know what she's arguing for?

I agree, this is a crusade against "whores" and I also think that trying to use the "financially rewarding" point will make people like Sarah Champion more eager than ever to push forward with more force. In my point of view, women like Sarah are more concerned with trying to block their partners from the Sex world than anything else. I mean the rest makes no sense whatsoever
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Adele7 on 05 July 2018, 10:31:59 pm
Thanks for the link Braziliana. I'm about to fill it in.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Grace D on 05 July 2018, 10:53:51 pm
I agree, this is a crusade against "whores" and I also think that trying to use the "financially rewarding" point will make people like Sarah Champion more eager than ever to push forward with more force. In my point of view, women like Sarah are more concerned with trying to block their partners from the Sex world than anything else. I mean the rest makes no sense whatsoever

That's a good point Adele, it's also to stop their partners from finding us. So many ladies are trying to explain the consequences of this to SC but she literally has her fingers in her ears because our voices don't support her agenda. Her puritan ethos means she can't imagine people doing this job willingly.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 05 July 2018, 11:28:21 pm
Good for you Brazilliana, and thanks for that link, I'll be adding my thoughts to the survey. I was outraged when Sarah Champion and Jess Phillips insisted during the debate that sex workers should be referred to as prostitutes and not sex workers. Obviously we ARE prostitutes and that label doesn't bother me these days, but I just felt it was so rude and dehumanizing of them. Make no mistake, this is a moral crusade against 'whores.' They don't care about our safety at all. Also SC contradicted her own argument when she said on Twitter that if punters can find us online then so can support services. Well, of course! Does she even know what she's arguing for?

and we are prostitutes AND sex workers. It's not one or the other. The issue is that they don't think sex work is work.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 05 July 2018, 11:33:22 pm
two things come to mind:

1) Defending prostitution is career suicide for any politician worth his salts  (despite half of those participating in the debate being frequent clients). So i don't see anybody coming forward defending sex workers any soon. Half of those those tories do back the sex trade but they will never say it in public for the sake of their career (or people thinking they might be punters that's why they're defending prostitutes wink-wink). That's the bad news.

However jeremy Corbyn supports sex workers rights so i don't understand why he's letting this idiot sarah champion engage in an anti sex workers campaign. As usual the labour party never taking a clear stance on anything lately. ???

2) Brexit is taking all their time and energy (and it will continue doing so for years to come) and that's the good news.

Sorry, I know this is not adding to much to the debate but just wanted to spare my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 05 July 2018, 11:47:40 pm
Why isn't there any organization or sex work platform planning a march in London? Why don;t we organize it? I believe there should be a big march organized and we should all go.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Grace D on 06 July 2018, 01:09:03 am
and we are prostitutes AND sex workers. It's not one or the other. The issue is that they don't think sex work is work.

Of course, they see us as degenerates or victims. Nothing in between
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Grace D on 06 July 2018, 01:15:26 am
Why isn't there any organization or sex work platform planning a march in London? Why don;t we organize it? I believe there should be a big march organized and we should all go.

There should be a march and I would support it but sadly I can't think of a time when any march influenced government policy. Remember the protest against the Iraq war. It's a tragedy that nobody is listening to us. But you're right, maybe we should be more outspoken!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 06 July 2018, 02:32:59 am
Why isn't there any organization or sex work platform planning a march in London? Why don;t we organize it? I believe there should be a big march organized and we should all go.

There is! there is a national movement for decrim in motion. join us! I've been posting in this forum about meetings.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 05:36:37 am
I've worked in several countries where the advertising of prostitution is blocked on the internet and and prostitution is illegal

It doesn't stop it one bit  it doesn't even push it underground .

All the guys use is a VPN  to access the sites

However one site that you can advertise on has a not very well known forum where the escorts can put the details of bad clients for other escorts to read
You can only see this if your a Escort advertising on the site or have advertised in the past
.
 It's horrifying  not one day goes buy without escorts  reporting they have been robbed raped attacked beaten up kicked out of hotel did the service and then had the  money taken back of them .its got thousands of reports of this happening

Last week alone there were around 30 reports of escorts reporting the above stuff happening to them

So banning the advertising of online prostitution won't stop prostitution it will just make it more difficult for the sex worker and more dangerous

Unless they actually take down sites like AW & Viva st advertising on them will remain but clients will need a vpn to access them

I'm a member of TER ( the erotic review ) one of the escort sites that has been banned from advertising in the USA
It's still exists but all the reviews have been removed along with the USA advertising section as far as I can see

But sites like p411 Eros and Alicia and other smaller sites that are not owned by American citizens or hosted/ based  in the USA are still there although I don't think they are taking on USA clients

The people it's really affected though it seems are those ladies just starting out or those with no reviews .


I can see it going back to adds in the papers,   touring will stop over night and any on line advertising being very very bland and the end of reviews and review sites if it goes the way it is in America



 I would reccomend all ladies somehow screenshot / save all there reviews in case this happens to us
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jetaimemelancolie on 06 July 2018, 10:09:34 am

2) Brexit is taking all their time and energy (and it will continue doing so for years to come) and that's the good news.


IMO this is the only saving grace of this whole thing and what's keeping my stress levels down a bit.
I am out of London this week and couldn't attend the protest but I emailed by MP and got my partner to do the same. It's been exhausting reading all of the uninformed, unethical things politicians and journos have been saying about us.

I've never worked in the US but some of the earliest sex work friends I met online and got very close with were US-based. I'm remembering how fast FOSTA-SESTA happened: first there was the awareness that laws criminalising the websites were being floated around, and then suddenly, literally overnight after the laws were passed, everything disappeared. It was heartbreaking to witness.

I really hope the same thing doesn't happen in the UK in the near future.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 July 2018, 10:28:16 am
Well.... prostitution adverts are banned in France (thanks Sarkozy), so how do French WG's operate? As far as i know the trade is still operating strong in france.

Any french ladies in the forum?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Shwiftysquancher91 on 06 July 2018, 11:01:56 am
A great cartoon character said once ‘planning for failure [morty] is dumber than regular planning’.

If we can focus on filling out the survey that’s been posted and spreading the word a bit more, being present throughout all of this we might not have to think about these things. If it comes down to it then yes, I think we can start thinking about our options. No attacks on anyone, just saying  ::)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Justine on 06 July 2018, 12:05:31 pm
Well.... prostitution adverts are banned in France (thanks Sarkozy), so how to French WG's operate? As far as i know the trade is still operating in france.

Any french ladies in the forum?

Yet on AW there are still sps on there today working from France. Something I am not understanding here so if anyone can shed light?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: misscleo on 06 July 2018, 01:23:41 pm
So does anyone know what the next step is? They had this "debate" yesterday now what?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 01:24:40 pm
Yet on AW there are still sps on there today working from France. Something I am not understanding here so if anyone can shed light?
I think it’ works like this ( if I’m wrong apologies )

  adult sites are  only banned in France to people in France if that makes sense people using french internet service providers .

 If your in France and use a VPN or outside off France like I’m assumimg your in the Uk then  sites can still be seen I can still see TER in the USA as I’m in the UK any American punter who has a VPN can still aces the site
P411 is Canadian owners and not based in the US so is still viewable in the US

 So unless they actually take down sites like they did with BP the sites will still exist but if your in that country that has banned the site you won’t be able to access it unless you use a VPN

 When I go go to Dubai all adult sites and porn sites are banned but I use the VPN called hide my ass which I buy off the App Store put it on my phone set the country to the Uk and then I can access all the adult sites and porn sites and gamble to my hearts content .
I do have to download this before I go as I can’t download when I’m there

So unless the Uk actually get the sites taken down and the owners arrested the sites will still be viewable
If you google the cloud act and prostitution this will explain it better than I can but it general and from my memory  and it’s a bit hazy  what is scary for any site owners is the cloud act which allows the us goverment to arrest indict owners of sites outside the US that are facilitating trafficking so sites like TER have removed reviews and adverts because one Escorts could say she was trafficked forced and the US goverment can then arrest the owners of the site
This is the reason why sites like AW and Other will not accept American Escorts at present
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 July 2018, 02:32:52 pm
".... I use the VPN called "hide my ass" from the apple store ...."

* Chuckles*
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 06 July 2018, 02:47:54 pm
So does anyone know what the next step is? They had this "debate" yesterday now what?

The government are putting a lot of emphasis on the Home Office sponsored research that the university of bristol is conducting. There are several links to it all over saafe.

Labour Party members need to work within the party to push for fun decrim in the manifesto.

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 03:22:57 pm
The Bristol Uni consultation states that they won't be submitting anything till Spring  next year
So we are safe till next year at least 😂😂

We would be grateful if you could fill in the survey by close of Monday 16 July 2018.  These responses can then inform this crucial early stage of our work.  We will leave the survey open to allow ongoing responses, up until 31 December 2018.

We will also be holding further consultations over the course of 2018 to review and refine our emerging findings. If you are interested in participating in these, please include your email and indicate your interest in section 14.

We will be completing this work in Spring 2019.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 06 July 2018, 04:50:49 pm
The following is the response, which I received today, to my email to my local MP, Rt Hon David Lammy, regarding the issue of closing down prostitution advertising websites:

***

Thank you for writing to me about whether the UK should imitate the USA’s Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act and Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act. Unfortunately, an important vote in the House of Commons meant that I was unable to attend the debate. However, I have outlined my views on the subject below.

To address your comments, I wish to note the broader context in which this discussion takes place. Three interlinked factors mean that prostitutes are some of the most vulnerable individuals in our society. First, the criminalisation of sex work prevents prostitutes from exiting the trade and seeking help when they need it. It also forces sex workers to operate in a black market, exposing them to networks of organised criminals. Third, many women who enter into prostitution do so in desperation, with few other sources of income. This has resulted from years of cuts by consecutive Conservative governments resulting in decreased living standards for marginalised women. For instance, a report commissioned by the APPG on Race and Community, which I chair, found that lone mothers will see their living standards drop by 18% — an average of £8,790 — by 2020. Therefore, any Government response to prostitution must seek to protect the rights of sex workers, tackle the organised crime associated with prostitution, and address their material deprivation.

In the US, the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act and Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act have failed to do any of this. Concerning the rights of sex workers, such legislation has restricted the activities of sex workers even further, making it harder for them access the assistance they need. It has also limited their ability to safely screen clients before meeting and forced them to find work through intermediaries, or on the streets. Meanwhile, a recent report by Human Rights Watch noted that both Acts have made it harder to punish sex-traffickers and pimps. In the past, these websites have proven a valuable source of intelligence for identifying and punishing such individuals, and in shutting them down, the Government has lost this insight. Finally, the legislation fails to discuss the material circumstances in which prostitutes enter, and occupy, the world of sex work.

I see little reason as to why the consequences of this legislation would be different in the UK and subsequently am opposed to its implementation. Proposals such as these reveal the inability of some politicians to respond to prostitution in a holistic and fact-based manner. If this Government is serious about helping vulnerable sex workers, they must focus on undoing the damage of years of cuts, protecting the rights of these vulnerable women and tackling organised crime.

Once again, I would like to thank you for drawing my attention to this issue. If you have any other concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Rt Hon David Lammy MP   

***   

There is some obvious anti-Tory "grand-standing" going on here, IMO, but anyway...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 06 July 2018, 04:56:40 pm
I've worked in several countries where the advertising of prostitution is blocked on the internet and and prostitution is illegal

It doesn't stop it one bit  it doesn't even push it underground...
Paris, your insights and experience are just what we need to fight the proposal to shut down our websites.  Please relay them to Sarah Champion and her followers (if you haven't already done so).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 05:00:21 pm
Paris, your insights and experience are just what we need to fight the proposal to shut down our websites.  Please relay them to Sarah Champion and her followers (if you haven't already done so).

lol I've already been quite active on twitter today
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Justine on 06 July 2018, 05:57:33 pm
Thanks for replying and explaining the France thing Paris (now there is a play on words if ever there was one!), I think I just about understand it the way you have set it out. It doesseem to me  though that to completely close down each and every one of the sites we and punters need/use would be a mammoth task and one not likely to happen in the near future.

Trade mags and newspaper box ads were fantastic but once they were all banned I think we just got complacent that the internet was here to stay forever as far as our advertising goes.  Shaky business now but a very long way off being closed down rendering us biting our nails in fear.  That is my view anyway.

Service providers just entering this business and wanting to work for a few years may have to face some difficulties one day but to be honest I will probably be retired by then so it will not affect me.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 06:00:21 pm
Here is the debate if you can read through this on such a lively hot sunny day

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2018-07-04a.140.0&s=prostitution#g164.2
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 06:01:22 pm
Thanks for replying and explaining the France thing Paris (now there is a play on words if ever there was one!), I think I just about understand it the way you have set it out. It doesseem to me  though that to completely close down each and every one of the sites we and punters need/use would be a mammoth task and one not likely to happen in the near future.

Trade mags and newspaper box ads were fantastic but once they were all banned I think we just got complacent that the internet was here to stay forever as far as our advertising goes.  Shaky business now but a very long way off being closed down rendering us biting our nails in fear.  That is my view anyway.
 You can still advertise in newspaper well you can where I live
Service providers just entering this business and wanting to work for a few years may have to face some difficulties one day but to be honest I will probably be retired by then so it will not affect me.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: lola99 on 06 July 2018, 06:05:41 pm
Well.... prostitution adverts are banned in France (thanks Sarkozy), so how do French WG's operate? As far as i know the trade is still operating strong in france.

Any french ladies in the forum?

Forget France its  dead and by the way vivastreet ceased operating in France last week?just 6 annonce are getting away with it and they are outrageously expensive and nowhere near as good as AW in terms of clients volume. You may or may not cover your ads fees that’s how hard it is.
New phenomenon in Fr is guys go to la jonquera in the Spanish French borders for cheap sex something like 50 euros per hour and I heard you pay on top a fee to the hosting clubs. It’s just awful!   :FF
Of course there’s a market for Monaco and festival de Cannes where there’s serious money to be had but I’ve not sussed it and if someone does know please share..


Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 06:30:05 pm

Forget France its  dead and by the way vivastreet ceased operating in France last week?just 6 annonce are getting away with it and they are outrageously expensive and nowhere near as good as AW in terms of clients volume. You may or may not cover your ads fees that’s how hard it is.
New phenomenon in Fr is guys go to la jonquera in the Spanish French borders for cheap sex something like 50 euros per hour and I heard you pay on top a fee to the hosting clubs. It’s just awful!   :FF
Of course there’s a market for Monaco and festival de Cannes where there’s serious money to be had but I’ve not sussed it and if someone does know please share..
Hi Are you able to answer these questions

Wasn't it illegal Nordic Model in France since 2016  if so how did that affect the business

Also is viva st gone in terms of advertising or you can't see it without a VPN

How come they didn't go after AW or is AW not as big as a source of advertising as Viva St

What about 6announce how come they are still in place what's different about them that they are able to stay up










 









Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 06:54:42 pm
I've just checked Viva St France
Yes all the Escort adds  and dating adds have gone

But the massage 😂Adds are still there just quite vanilla ( well according to my google transalate )
So it might go this way should they ban Escort advertising
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: lola99 on 06 July 2018, 07:19:13 pm
Yes Paris, you’re right all you can do now is place a legit sounding massage advert under section “service & aide a la personne” but I cant get my head around the fact there are only 2 pages in the whole of France and they are all Asian Thai mainly so your theory about VPN sounds the more plausible explanation.
This VNP thing does is allow you to place adverts from abroad?

AW never made it big in France, the agency culture has always been bigger and stronger than AW.
French punters have an unhealthy fascination with “ la Madame proxenete” otherwise known as pimps -everything we WGs loathe with passion.

And lastly, I don’t have a clue why 6 annonce is getting away with it. Guess it’s just a matter of time..
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 07:33:41 pm
It's only just happened in France
Give it a few weeks and those pages will be full of escorts I mean massages 😂
Google  Dubai escort where they will literally cut your head of for having Sex outside of marriage there are pages of escorts site
If your In Dubai you can't access these sites unless you have a VPN
If you have one before you arrive you can
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 06 July 2018, 07:41:33 pm
I've just checked Viva St France
Yes all the Escort adds  and dating adds have gone

But the massage 😂Adds are still there just quite vanilla ( well according to my google transalate )
So it might go this way should they ban Escort advertising

Are you in France ATM
If you google escorts in France what do you see
If I google it as I'm in the uk I get loads of sites

But you don't get Viva St at all so it's not coming up In the search when I use those words
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 July 2018, 07:43:30 pm
France is a very promiscuous culture, quite a free and liberated society when it comes to sex. the whole country is packed with swing clubs everywhere (it's a common thing for couples to do on the weekends), and the word "monogamy" is unknown when it comes to marriage. Men have their mistresses, married women have their rendez vouz and it's totally fine. Remember Francoise Miterrand the ex president? He was a married man and was elected president despite having children with his mistress and being a public thing. Something that would have never happened in the US (or the UK) nobody bat an eyelid in France.

My point is: France has always been a dead place for sex workers (I've heard this from women who've worked there in the 80's and 90's) , it's been bad for business decades before prostitution websites were banned. And that's because everybody is fucking their neighbour and their auntie. It's a very free and liberated culture so there's little need to pay for sex.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: lola99 on 06 July 2018, 08:27:20 pm
Paris, Yes I can see , I’m in U.K. Adverts are there but remember it’s based on a Swedish model criminalising punters so clients are more and more afraid and shy when it comes to making contact , I’ve heard of instances whereby the adverts are a bait placed by you know who ..and it entails hefty fines and may be criminal records .. Not sure how true or how aggressive they are at implementing this anti prostitution policy though  :-\
Think of Ireland and and Sweden, your business can never thrive no matter how savvy,beautiful or popular you are if you’re operating underground at the end of the day it’s illegal and damn right dangerous.
How can I work safely in FR if I can’t even report incidents without repercussions ?

Anna, Fr society is changing, it has developed a taste for gossip news and scandal just like everywhere really. Press these days will slate a president if he has a mistress, remember what happen to Hollande when he did the dirty on Valerie trierwiler? It was a huge scandal and a national outcry that has shot down his credibility and ultimately led to his demise..
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 06 July 2018, 08:33:17 pm
it has developed a taste for gossip news and scandal just like everywhere really.

Well nearly everywhere; we don't want it here and it's wandering off a bit. Let's get back on track, please :).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: lola99 on 06 July 2018, 08:39:33 pm
Sorry Amy, got carried away!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 07 July 2018, 03:16:03 pm
This is the update of the Bristol University Home Office Survey
We have till the 16th July to get our views across so please every one f you want to stay an independent Sex Worker and not be subject to Sesta /Fosta style laws in the uk please fill in this survey


http://www.bristol.ac.uk/sps/research/projects/current/prostitution-and-sex-work-nature-and-prevalence-in-england-and-wales/
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Seamstress on 07 July 2018, 04:42:13 pm
I notice this is specific to England and Wales, and am wondering what the stance is in relation to (potential) respondents and / or implications for those in Scotland and Northern Ireland? Does this automatically fall within the remit of being a devolved matter as opposed to being UK wide (the latter of which would seem more likely given we're talking about the internet)?
Curious why this has been limited in this way.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 07 July 2018, 05:18:47 pm
I notice this is specific to England and Wales, and am wondering what the stance is in relation to (potential) respondents and / or implications for those in Scotland and Northern Ireland? Does this automatically fall within the remit of being a devolved matter as opposed to being UK wide (the latter of which would seem more likely given we're talking about the internet)?
Curious why this has been limited in this way.

I am fairly certain Northern Ireland has the Nordic Model
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 08 July 2018, 11:12:18 am
Just catching up on this  >:( >:( >:(

'Sarah Champion, MP for Rotherham' - is it the same Rotherham where sexual exploitation of young girls/ children by certain gangs took place on a mass scale? And nothing was done about it?
And when an independent journalist reports on pedophile gang trials when press doesn't have the guts to do this, he gets thrown to jail.
THIS is sexual exploitation. This is violence and nobody talks about it.
Yea. So much easier to go on a moral crusade against 'whores', isn't it?

I will do this Bristol Uni survey for sure.

Recently there was a debate on EU's Article 13 (basically banning memes etc in the name of copyrights but in fact limiting freedom of speech/ expression); I emailed MEPs, do you know who was the only person that replied?
Gerard Batten of UKiP.
My point is - it's worth to build an alliance with people based on how much they care about freedom instead of paying attention to their political affiliation.

Adding to this - as Kay mentioned earlier, if you don't have a website already, get one and start building your newsletter/ mailing list.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 08 July 2018, 11:25:46 am
To conservatives, thrashing sex workers appeals to married women. To liberals, thrashing clients as abusers appeals to the men who can't afford it.

Excellent comment  :D
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 08 July 2018, 12:04:46 pm
Another idea - perhaps it would be good to SELL decrim - just like any other product/ fashion etc.
And create social following/ alliance based on this?
Approach it as a marketing/ PR thing?   

I think this would give far more leverage than just marching/ writing petitions etc.
More effective, more creative.

A marketing campaign instead of political struggle.

Good branding, good selling... - sex workers as winners, not victims.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 02:51:47 pm


Gerard Batten of UKiP.
My point is - it's worth to build an alliance with people based on how much they care about freedom instead of paying attention to their political affiliation.

Adding to this - as Kay mentioned earlier, if you don't have a website already, get one and start building your newsletter/ mailing list.

Gerard Batten isn't just UKIP though, he speaks at Tommy Robinson marches. We can't ally ourselves with people who oppose the rights of immigrant sex workers and sex workers of colour.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 08 July 2018, 04:24:49 pm
Gerard Batten isn't just UKIP though, he speaks at Tommy Robinson marches. We can't ally ourselves with people who oppose the rights of immigrant sex workers and sex workers of colour.

Okay.
I have a different view.
I think that not accepting someone's support is:
1. Not pragmatic
2. Being as closed-minded as Sarah Champion
For decrim, I would gratefully embrace support even from Jeremy Corbyn :D If he decided to actually support us.

I'm not that into politics, so might have missed information.
Could you please give me an example of where Gerard Batten or Tommy Robinson oppose the rights of workers of colour? That's absolutely unacceptable.
I won't comment of the issue of immigrant workers (just for the record I am an immigrant myself), because that's not the issue here.
The issue is legality of sex work - allowing a group of people who chose this industry, to work - i.e. run their business and contribute to society, instead of asking for a handout.

My idea would be to embrace the market and go the marketing/ PR route instead of political narrative. Embrace the market and be proactive instead of waiting for the political figureheads to make decisions for us.
Create a really, really good website for decrim and use every visual/ marketing way to promote it and engage with the wide public. With real life stories, with really good photos and easy way that people could express their support (like including AW profiles, embeding Twitter etc, etc...).
Very clear, very pretty and engaging website. It shouldn't be that hard to sell sex, right? ;)
Get support from people/ social following, gain the momentum, take support from everyone who is sympathetic to this cause and cares about liberty.
There is only as much petitions and marches can do.
Marketing/ social media/ press - that's how we can gain the power and upper hand.
But yea. Being publicly supportive of Tommy Robinson is a PR/ social suicide. I am fully aware of this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 08 July 2018, 04:37:52 pm
I fully agree with 80's.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 08 July 2018, 04:54:49 pm
Surely if the Uk went full decrim it would be disastrous for independent escorts mainly  it would probably benefit the punters pimps and traffickers more than the escorts
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany


Yes you might get it were 3/4 escorts could share a flat legally which would be great but you would most likely end up with the super brothels like Germany where you would have little choice over services,  hours for work and the like. 

From what I have read In places like Germany where it's decriminalised you mainly have the super brothels,  prices are as low as fuck and trafficking hasn't lessened its increased as there is no crime against pimping as such  . Woman are still being trafficked to work in such super brothels but now it's pretty much  perfectly legal and ignored

Read up on the realities of full decrim in Germany and see if you want it in the U.K.
A partial decrim to allow a small group of escorts to work together would be great but if you really want Super brothels then nope I don't agree with full decrim  they way it is in Germany at present

Personally I think the uk will go down the Nordic Model Route to begin with
   
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 08 July 2018, 05:04:35 pm
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany

Germany doesn't have decriminalisation, it has legalisation. This means government regulation/control and is as bad if not worse than criminalisation - it is categorically not the same thing and not what any organisation I know of is campaigning for.

Under legalisation, sex work is controlled by the government and is legal only under certain state-specified conditions. Decriminalisation involves the removal of all prostitution-specific laws, although sex workers and sex work businesses must still operate within the laws of the land, as must any businesses. This is the New Zealand model, not the German one.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 08 July 2018, 05:21:46 pm
Germany doesn't have decriminalisation, it has legalisation. This means government regulation/control and is as bad if not worse than criminalisation - it is categorically not the same thing and not what any organisation I know of is campaigning for.

Under legalisation, sex work is controlled by the government and is legal only under certain state-specified conditions. Decriminalisation involves the removal of all prostitution-specific laws, although sex workers and sex work businesses must still operate within the laws of the land, as must any businesses. This is the New Zealand model, not the German one.
.

Thank you Amy for that it's all pretty confusing to read I need to put my glasses on and start again 😂
So Germany has legalisation
NZ has Full Decrim
That explains the Super Brothels in Germany then and the articles I have been reading
I hope that the UK doesn't follow Germany then 
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 05:25:18 pm
I fully agree with 80's.

i suggest googling what he said at tommy robinson's "day of freedom". the man is an odious islamophobe and racist. We can't accept just anyone's support. if the KKK supported decrim of sex work, we wouldn't align with them.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 05:27:31 pm
Surely if the Uk went full decrim it would be disastrous for independent escorts mainly  it would probably benefit the punters pimps and traffickers more than the escorts
Full decrim sound great initially until you actually read about it in countries like Germany


Yes you might get it were 3/4 escorts could share a flat legally which would be great but you would most likely end up with the super brothels like Germany where you would have little choice over services,  hours for work and the like. 

From what I have read In places like Germany where it's decriminalised you mainly have the super brothels,  prices are as low as fuck and trafficking hasn't lessened its increased as there is no crime against pimping as such  . Woman are still being trafficked to work in such super brothels but now it's pretty much  perfectly legal and ignored

Read up on the realities of full decrim in Germany and see if you want it in the U.K.
A partial decrim to allow a small group of escorts to work together would be great but if you really want Super brothels then nope I don't agree with full decrim  they way it is in Germany at present

Personally I think the uk will go down the Nordic Model Route to begin with
 


Germany doesn't have full decrim. It has legalisation. Very few people in the UK want legalisation.

Trafficking levels aren't affected by any model of sex work (source anti slavery international). No-one is asking for decrim of trafficking.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 05:29:08 pm



My idea would be to embrace the market and go the marketing/ PR route instead of political narrative. Embrace the market and be proactive instead of waiting for the political figureheads to make decisions for us.
Create a really, really good website for decrim and use every visual/ marketing way to promote it and engage with the wide public. With real life stories, with really good photos and easy way that people could express their support (like including AW profiles, embeding Twitter etc, etc...).
Very clear, very pretty and engaging website. It shouldn't be that hard to sell sex, right? ;)
Get support from people/ social following, gain the momentum, take support from everyone who is sympathetic to this cause and cares about liberty.
There is only as much petitions and marches can do.
Marketing/ social media/ press - that's how we can gain the power and upper hand.
But yea. Being publicly supportive of Tommy Robinson is a PR/ social suicide. I am fully aware of this.

we need to do both. not one or the other. If you feel passionately about this, why not get involved with one of the myriad of groups working on this and offer your time?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 08 July 2018, 05:36:36 pm
So Germany has legalisation

That's right :).

Legalisation means things like mandatory registration, being told where and when you can work and what services you can offer, government interference in how you have your health checks and where and general discrimination - in some places sex workers personal information has been used to threaten and blackmail them by corrupt authorities, and in others anybody registered as a sex worker have some personal freedoms restricted. It isn't what anybody wants, not even the antis.

Decrim means that we have to comply with the same laws as everybody else does when they're working, but there aren't specific ones made up just for us and our customers. So if you and I decided to buy a flat for work to be safer and miss fewer calls and so on, it would be no different than if we were mechanics and wanted to buy a garage to work in together so we could be safer if there was an accident and book in MOTs and stuff. At the moment one is unlawful and the other isn't, which is completely stupid.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 08 July 2018, 05:47:31 pm

Germany doesn't have full decrim. It has legalisation. Very few people in the UK want legalisation.

Trafficking levels aren't affected by any model of sex work (source anti slavery international). No-one is asking for decrim of trafficking.

Not sure about that.

Spain. In spain the big brothels are allowed (like in germany), you have them all over the country and they're incredibly popular. The french girl who posted on this thread is right, there's many on the French border (la jonquera- basque country-), and they attract thousands of French men who cross the border daily into Spain only to visit these massive bordellos with hundreds of girls to choose from then go back to france. They can have sex for a very cheap price. This attracts trafficking mafias big time. These mafias work in conjuction with the Spanish bordello owners and brings them girls from poor countries, mainly Latin america, Russia, Africa and eastern Europe. That's where they get recruited by the traffickers. By the way: These women know perfectly what they are coming for, so there's no "forced anything". They're coming to make big quick bucks $$$ then go home and tell their family they went on some sort of turistic trip to Spain. Yes, they do need to give the trafficker a cut for bringing them to Spain or germany and getting them a job in the bordello.

If these big bordellos didn't existed the trafficking mafias would need to find another job. all the above is unheard of in the UK.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 05:51:34 pm
Not sure about that.

Spain. In spain the big brothels are allowed (like in germany), you have them all over the country and they're incredibly popular. The french girl who posted on this thread is right, there's many on the French border (la jonquera- basque country-), and they attract thousands of French men who cross the border daily into Spain only to visit these massive bordellos with hundreds of girls to choose from then go back to france. They can have sex for a very cheap price. This attracts trafficking mafias big time. These mafias work in conjuction with the Spanish bordello owners and brings them girls from poor countries, mainly Latin america, Russia, Africa and eastern Europe. That's where they get recruited by the traffickers. By the way: These women know perfectly what they are coming for, so there's no "forced anything".

If these big bordellos didn't existed the trafficking mafias would need to find another job.

I think that the world's oldest human rights organisation may know a thing or two.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/justice-2011-2016/human-trafficking-bill/written-submissions/anti-slavery-international.pdf

Just look at Dubai. fully criminalised, harsh penalties and trafficking is rife.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 08 July 2018, 06:17:47 pm
I think that the world's oldest human rights organisation may know a thing or two.

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/justice-2011-2016/human-trafficking-bill/written-submissions/anti-slavery-international.pdf

Just look at Dubai. fully criminalised, harsh penalties and trafficking is rife.

Yes, Dubai prostitution might be "fully criminalized" (cough-cough) but all the big hotels and bars are packed with tons of WG's so deep down the law is extremely permissive which makes that "fully criminalized" thingy pretty laughable.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 08 July 2018, 06:34:54 pm
Yes, Dubai prostitution might be "fully criminalized" (cough-cough) but all the big hotels and bars are packed with tons of WG's so deep down the law is extremely permissive which makes that "fully criminalized" thingy pretty laughable.

depends who you are as to how the criminalisation affects you. and obviously the traffickers and the agencies pay the police off.

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/news/crime/Woman-faces-3-months-jail,-deportation-for-prostitution-in-Dubai-

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/male-prostitute-with-more-than-300-clients-is-jailed-in-dubai-1.42700

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/05/police-in-dubai-have-arrested-2713-sex-workers-and-107-pimps-in-the-last-15-months-as-part-of-an-ongoing-campaign-against-vi.html
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 08 July 2018, 06:48:39 pm
depends who you are as to how the criminalisation affects you. and obviously the traffickers and the agencies pay the police off.

Isn't that usually the case in all the countries where prostitution is highly criminalized?  ;D
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 08 July 2018, 07:29:31 pm
Isn't that usually the case in all the countries where prostitution is highly criminalized?  ;D

It's not just prostitution that's illegal  in Dubai it's sex outside of marriage for anyone
But you can work there reasonably easily as an independent from hotels and apartments

But a place where I advertise in Dubai has a private section where escorts can post full details of bad clients every day there are several reports of escorts being robbed, raped, attacked having the money snatched back, beaten up & threatened to report to hotels

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 08 July 2018, 08:21:47 pm
We'll lighten up on the press urls please, and getting back to the thread starter might be nice too. It's all vaguely linked I know, but given the timeframe and the potential effects on people here and their advertising it's getting too vague, and we have discussion threads about the MI already.

Ana, I'm not sure what you think is funny about any of these posts but it's really not appropriate.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 08 July 2018, 08:31:42 pm
We'll lighten up on the press urls please, and getting back to the thread starter might be nice too. It's all vaguely linked I know, but given the timeframe and the potential effects on people here and their advertising it's getting too vague, and we have discussion threads about the MI already.

Ana, I'm not sure what you think is funny about any of these posts but it's really not appropriate.

Sorry amy, I was just trying to point out the double morality of these countries where prostitution is fully illegal but operates in full open air and organized mafias act in conjuction with police etc.. No it's not funny, just so "double faced". Maybe bad wording (or light hearted "tone"?) in my case but absolutely not trying to make fun of anything or anybody here. I'm quite concerned and worried about this government possible outlaw of websites (and so is everybody here) hence the reason I opened this thread.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Ellie B on 08 July 2018, 10:54:13 pm
There is double morality in countries which choose to criminalize prostitution.
We need to speak up on our part in this country on this issue but why should we pussy foot around this subject with regards to Middle Eastern countries that stone to death married women who are allegedly "unfaithful"  whilst men our allowed to do what they want  - marry numerous women and is legal and men outside of their marriages can do want they wish without this obscene injustice.

In the past few weeks it has only been legal for women in Saudia Arabia to drive a car.

We are fortunate in this country that we have freedom of speech and we should not be criticised for speaking up on the rights of women, from any country or religion.
We are living in the 21st century.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Ellie B on 08 July 2018, 10:56:29 pm
Ana - can you please pm me?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 08 July 2018, 11:53:24 pm
Sorry amy, I was just trying to point out the double morality of these countries where prostitution is fully illegal but operates in full open air and organized mafias act in conjuction with police etc.. No it's not funny, just so "double faced". Maybe bad wording (or light hearted "tone"?) in my case but absolutely not trying to make fun of anything or anybody here. I'm quite concerned and worried about this government possible outlaw of websites (and so is everybody here) hence the reason I opened this thread.

No that's fine, but it's also not what this thread is about.

Whilst there will always be people who want to get involved in things like activism and lobbying, and help because it's second nature for them to do so they're a minority and understandably so - it's a lot of incredibly hard work, desperately frustrating and often completely thankless.

The only reliable way to get the majority interested is to hit them where they live, which is what we're increasingly seeing now that the attention is turning more to prossies like 'us' rather than prossies like 'them' and the talk has turned to the likes of Adultwork (plus the carry on with Backpage a few weeks ago). First they came for the street workers, etc....

It's a shite state of affairs that we have to have these sorts of discussions at all but since we do, long may it continue as it'll hopefully get more people involved :).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 09 July 2018, 08:24:59 am
No that's fine, but it's also not what this thread is about.

Whilst there will always be people who want to get involved in things like activism and lobbying, and help because it's second nature for them to do so they're a minority and understandably so - it's a lot of incredibly hard work, desperately frustrating and often completely thankless.

The only reliable way to get the majority interested is to hit them where they live, which is what we're increasingly seeing now that the attention is turning more to prossies like 'us' rather than prossies like 'them' and the talk has turned to the likes of Adultwork (plus the carry on with Backpage a few weeks ago). First they came for the street workers, etc....

It's a shite state of affairs that we have to have these sorts of discussions at all but since we do, long may it continue as it'll hopefully get more people involved :).

I've noticed how the advertising thing has suddenly galvanised a lot of action and interest, as if nothing has been bubbling for years. Not complaining just noticing.

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 08:47:58 am
No that's fine, but it's also not what this thread is about.

Whilst there will always be people who want to get involved in things like activism and lobbying, and help because it's second nature for them to do so they're a minority and understandably so - it's a lot of incredibly hard work, desperately frustrating and often completely thankless.

The only reliable way to get the majority interested is to hit them where they live, which is what we're increasingly seeing now that the attention is turning more to prossies like 'us' rather than prossies like 'them' and the talk has turned to the likes of Adultwork (plus the carry on with Backpage a few weeks ago). First they came for the street workers, etc....

It's a shite state of affairs that we have to have these sorts of discussions at all but since we do, long may it continue as it'll hopefully get more people involved :).

 I agree when it happened in America a lot of people weren’t interested; didn’t think it could happen to them as they weren’t Street Walkers
And while I followedwhat happened in America  I also didn’t think it would happen at least not to remove the websites and pretty much force in a backhanded way all the Escort directories to remove American Escorts and reviews

I think personally the Uk will go down the Nordic Model first then possibly try to force the adverising sites down
Or we will go back to saying crap like it’s a hundred & fifty roses for 1 hr or some bullshit like this

However I follow a lot of American Escorts and they all still seem to be working advertising on certain sites
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 09:00:05 am
I've noticed how the advertising thing has suddenly galvanised a lot of action and interest, as if nothing has been bubbling for years. Not complaining just noticing.

because if you can’t advertise how can you work & earn money 
A large percentage of Escorts on AW have never advertised in the papers working via the net is all they know.
Where I live in Bristol there is a red light area and always has been for many many years but I noticed in recent years this has gotten less and less obvious and it’s possible that a lot of the woman that walked the st could  have turned to the internet and indoor work
Several massage parlours in Bristol have shut recently as well. And they had been there for years.

I think The worse thing that would happen is if the Uk follow the US and bully directories In a backhanded way of threats to remove UK /British Escorts and the reviews

 a lot of Escorts are starting to realise that there earnings might be affected in the next 2 years and it could literally happen overnight

Like Amy said when it happens in other countries we don’t always pay attention but when it’s on our doorstop we do tend to listen a bit more .

But I bet only a small percent will fill out the goverment survey and think it won’t happen

I’ve already started thinking worse case scenario and been in touch with my webmaster to find out what will happen to my website and stuff

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ladyofthemansion on 09 July 2018, 09:02:20 am
I think if people can get the clickable link sent to them by email more people will do it.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 09 July 2018, 11:14:06 am
because if you can’t advertise how can you work & earn money 
A large percentage of Escorts on AW have never advertised in the papers working via the net is all they know.
Where I live in Bristol there is a red light area and always has been for many many years but I noticed in recent years this has gotten less and less obvious and it’s possible that a lot of the woman that walked the st could  have turned to the internet and indoor work
Several massage parlours in Bristol have shut recently as well. And they had been there for years.

I think The worse thing that would happen is if the Uk follow the US and bully directories In a backhanded way of threats to remove UK /British Escorts and the reviews

 a lot of Escorts are starting to realise that there earnings might be affected in the next 2 years and it could literally happen overnight

Like Amy said when it happens in other countries we don’t always pay attention but when it’s on our doorstop we do tend to listen a bit more .

But I bet only a small percent will fill out the goverment survey and think it won’t happen

I’ve already started thinking worse case scenario and been in touch with my webmaster to find out what will happen to my website and stuff

I completely agree many are totally reliant on VS, AW for advertising and just haven't seen any value in developing anything outside of that.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 03:25:50 pm
I've noticed how the advertising thing has suddenly galvanised a lot of action and interest, as if nothing has been bubbling for years. Not complaining just noticing.

We have been organising for years though. One of the reasons we don't have the Nordic Model is that ECP organised protests and lobbying of MPs when they tried to introduce it under the Human Trafficking Bill a few years ago. Just look at the ECP site to see how they've protested and supported workers evicted from flats in Soho, street workers facing cautions etc
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 07:24:09 pm
I think that the problem is that we are just a very small percentage of sex workers on here who read the forum and also the  politics posts and respond to the government surveys . And also know about the ECP and the work they do .

I would imagine that a large percentage of Sex workers on AW & VS don't have any idea about this potential new law and how it will affect them Or who the ECP are and what they do .

I wonder if Viva St & AW would  possibly contact / email or the advertiser suggesting that they fill out the government survey
It would be a pretty effective and quick way to reach practically every Sex worker that uses these sites to advertise 
I would imagine it would be in both Viva St & AW not to have there advertising blocked and revenue cut overnight
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 09 July 2018, 07:45:36 pm
how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. Lets spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 07:59:30 pm
how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. we try to spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks.

Not me I can't write to save a toffee . But I think getting it out to as many escorts as possible would be amazing and using AW & VS would be the best starting point.
With AW & VS you pretty much have every independent escort in the uk 😂
 
If we could include the fact that what happen in America and Backpage could potentially happen in the uk as well   

Explain that the government want to bring in either the Nordic Model and potentially get rid of AW /VS
And explain how they want to do this .

I think once people  start realising that this is potentially going to affect them in the pocket it might galvanise them into acting and filling out that form

Nothing makes people act quicker than the thought of losing money 😂
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 08:01:33 pm
how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. Lets spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks.
i'm in contact with someone from AW. I can talk to him about this.

also 46% of the people who've responded to be survey are current or former workers.

It's worth looking at the updated link to the survey. this research is focussed on mapping types of work rather than necessarily proposing Nordic Model or decrim or banning advertising.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 09 July 2018, 08:06:38 pm
...I would imagine that a large percentage of Sex workers on AW & VS don't have any idea about this potential new law and how it will affect them...
...I wonder if Viva St & AW would  possibly contact / email or the advertiser suggesting that they fill out the government survey...   
...I would imagine it would be in both Viva St & AW not to have there advertising blocked and revenue cut overnight
Excellent idea, IMO, Paris.  Where VS is concerned, you could, if you were willing, post this idea in the VS thread of this forum.
Where both AW and VS are concerned, you could put this idea to them via customer service...and, to strengthen our cause, the rest of us could do the same.
Unless anyone can suggest a reason not to contact AW & VS with this proposal, I will be doing so either tomorrow or on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 08:09:06 pm
I think that the problem is that we are just a very small percentage of sex workers on here who read the forum and also the  politics posts and respond to the government surveys . And also know about the ECP and the work they do .

I would imagine that a large percentage of Sex workers on AW & VS don't have any idea about this potential new law and how it will affect them Or who the ECP are and what they do .

I wonder if Viva St & AW would  possibly contact / email or the advertiser suggesting that they fill out the government survey
It would be a pretty effective and quick way to reach practically every Sex worker that uses these sites to advertise 
I would imagine it would be in both Viva St & AW not to have there advertising blocked and revenue cut overnight

the government survey is about improving research into the nature and extent of the sex industry, it's not about banning advertising.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 09 July 2018, 08:11:07 pm
how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. Lets spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks.
+1
If there is enough support from this forum for this idea, I will volunteer to create the template.  (I am equally happy to step aside on this in favour of someone better).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 08:19:12 pm
also the survey has been shared on twitter hundreds if not thousands of times. this conversation is more relevant to the thread i started in this forum on the survey. it has nothing to do with the debate in parliament.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 09 July 2018, 08:35:19 pm
the government survey is about improving research into the nature and extent of the sex industry, it's not about banning advertising.
...but shouldn't we use it as an opportunity to stand up for, well, consensual sex between adults (since the government clearly seems to be being influenced into thinking that there is something wrong with this) which, in certain cases (like ours), entails the use of online advertising platforms?  I think we should, personally, especially since we may not get another opportunity to do so ahead of any potential changes in laws relating to...consensual sex between adults which just happens to involve payment (in one form or another).   My view is further fuelled by the ignorant attack on consensual prostitution made by Gavin Shuker MP, Sarah Champion MP and Fiona Bruce MP (and others) in Parliament this past Wednesday; by denying the fact of consensual prostitution (as they all mostly did), they denied both our very existence and our right to engage with prostitution.  (Or tried to).  They deplored the fact that we prostitutes can be "ordered" by phone via AW & VS, for instance, conveniently neglecting to mention that this this is precisely what we want...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 08:38:25 pm
...but shouldn't we use it as an opportunity to stand up for, well, consensual sex between adults (since the government clearly seems to be being influenced into thinking that there is something wrong with this) which, in certain cases (like ours), entails the use of online advertising platforms?  I think we should, personally, especially since we may not get another opportunity to do so ahead of any potential changes in laws relating to...consensual sex between adults which happens to involve payment (in one form or another).   My view is further fuelled by the ignorant attack on consensual prostitution made by Gavin Shuker MP, Sarah Champion MP and Fiona Bruce MP (and others) in Parliament this past Wednesday; by denying the fact of consensual prostitution (as they all mostly did), they denied our right to engage with prostitution.  (Or tried to).  They deplored the fact that we prostitutes can be "ordered" by phone via AW & VS, for instance, conveniently neglecting to mention that this this is precisely what we want...

yes, of course we should reply to it (i started a thread asking people to!), but we need to ensure that we understand the scope and purpose of the research. also, please move this to the relevant thread as requested
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 09 July 2018, 08:40:30 pm
i'm in contact with someone from AW. I can talk to him about this.
Great!  Please feed back to us on this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 08:45:01 pm
also the survey has been shared on twitter hundreds if not thousands of times. this conversation is more relevant to the thread i started in this forum on the survey. it has nothing to do with the debate in parliament.

Apologies for all the questions

So the government survey is about more research into prostitution has nothing to do with the debate in parliament

The debate in parliament  with MP Sara Champion is attempting is something totally separate i.e. She wants to ban advertising platforms / bring in the Nordic Model
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 08:52:12 pm

Apologies for all the questions

So the government survey is about more research into prostitution has nothing to do with the debate in parliament

The debate in parliament  with MP Sara Champion is attempting is something totally separate i.e. She wants to ban advertising platforms / bring in the Nordic Model

yes, the research has been commissioned by the home affairs select committee as they found that they didn't have good enough research into sex work into the uk and therefore couldn't make a decision on what the legalisation around sex work should be.

Please read the link to the research survey (someone posted it above and it's in my thread about the survey) which has more info on all of this.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2015/prostitution-report-published-16-17/


"Despite the obvious difficulties involved in getting data on an essentially covert industry, the Committee is "dismayed" at the poor quality of information available about the extent and nature of prostitution in England and Wales. The figures cited above must be considered in this context.

Without a proper evidence base, the Government cannot make informed decisions about the effectiveness of current legislation and policies, and cannot target funding and support interventions effectively. The Home Office should commission an in-depth research study on the current extent and nature of prostitution in England and Wales, within the next 12 months."
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 09 July 2018, 08:55:53 pm
yes, the research has been commissioned by the home affairs select committee as they found that they didn't have good enough research into sex work into the uk and therefore couldn't make a decision on what the legalisation around sex work should be.

Please read the link to the research survey with has more info on all of this.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2015/prostitution-report-published-16-17/


"Despite the obvious difficulties involved in getting data on an essentially covert industry, the Committee is "dismayed" at the poor quality of information available about the extent and nature of prostitution in England and Wales. The figures cited above must be considered in this context.

Without a proper evidence base, the Government cannot make informed decisions about the effectiveness of current legislation and policies, and cannot target funding and support interventions effectively. The Home Office should commission an in-depth research study on the current extent and nature of prostitution in England and Wales, within the next 12 months."

Thank you so much for explaining that clearly
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 09 July 2018, 09:19:57 pm
yes, the research has been commissioned by the home affairs select committee as they found that they didn't have good enough research into sex work into the uk and therefore couldn't make a decision on what the legalisation around sex work should be.
Quote

...which is why I believe we should use the survey to speak up for all areas of our rights, including the right to online advertising

Without a proper evidence base, the Government cannot make informed decisions about the effectiveness of current legislation and policies, and cannot target funding and support interventions effectively.  The Home Office should commission an in-depth research study on the current extent and nature of prostitution in England and Wales, within the next 12 months.

That's strange since, in response to the Third Report from the Home Affairs Select Committee Session 2016-2017, the same Home Office no less made a number of recommendations on the laws relating to prostitution (which, to my surprise - and delight - actually favoured our cause).  They recommended, for instance...

"...that, at the earliest opportunity, the
Home Office change existing legislation so that soliciting is no longer an offence and
so that brothel-keeping provisions allow sex workers to share premises, without
losing the ability to prosecute those who use brothels to control or exploit sex
workers. There must be zero tolerance of the organised criminal exploitation of sex
workers.  The Home Office should also legislate for the deletion of previous
convictions and cautions for prostitution from the record of sex workers by amending
the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act
..."

(I am preaching to the choir, I am aware...)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 09 July 2018, 09:37:45 pm
On the other hand (as a side note, and sorry for the slight off topic) if you guys remember, a few months before backpage was taken down, it's erotic services section in europe (and the rest of the world) was still going strong while banned in the US. You couldn't access any erotic services section in the rest of the world if you were in the US. Surprisingly I was still getting a lot of US clients calling me, they all had a VPN.

My point is: All the adultworks et al being hosted in weird countries with very relaxed laws will continue operating and clients will just get a VPN. I don't see the trade going into the streets or even the dark web.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 09:40:39 pm
That's strange since, in response to the Third Report from the Home Affairs Select Committee Session 2016-2017, the same Home Office no less made a number of recommendations on the laws relating to prostitution (which, to my surprise - and delight - actually favoured our cause).  They recommended, for instance...

"...that, at the earliest opportunity, the
Home Office change existing legislation so that soliciting is no longer an offence and
so that brothel-keeping provisions allow sex workers to share premises, without
losing the ability to prosecute those who use brothels to control or exploit sex
workers. There must be zero tolerance of the organised criminal exploitation of sex
workers.  The Home Office should also legislate for the deletion of previous
convictions and cautions for prostitution from the record of sex workers by amending
the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act
..."

(I am preaching to the choir, I am aware...)


PLEASE MOVE DISCUSSION OF THE SURVEY TO THE RELEVANT THREAD IN THIS FORUM.

Yes, the HASC made some recommendations, but if you read the link from the HASC which I posted above you'll see that they were unable to decide on areas such as treatment of clients, third parties etc. hence the need for more research.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 09:42:06 pm
On the other hand (as a side note, and sorry for the slight off topic) if you guys remember, a few months before backpage was taken down, it's erotic services section in europe (and the rest of the world) was still going strong while banned in the US. You couldn't access any erotic services section in the rest of the world if you were in the US. Surprisingly I was still getting a lot of US clients calling me, they all had a VPN.

My point is: All the adultworks et al being hosted in weird countries with very relaxed laws will continue operating and clients will just get a VPN. I don't see the trade going into the streets or even the dark web.

I have literally just heard from an Aussie worker who is now doing street work due to back page going down. I can't get most clients to use google maps, let alone get a VPN
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 09 July 2018, 09:54:31 pm
I have literally just heard from an Aussie worker who is now doing street work due to back page going down. I can't get most clients to use google maps, let alone get a VPN

Good point. just wait and see how the VPN use  thing starts to spread on the punters forums, reddits etc..and how fast they start learning how to use them once they need to get laid.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 09:55:09 pm
Good point. just wait and see how the VPN use  thing starts to spread on the punters forums, reddits etc..and how fast they start learning how to use them if they need to get laid.

Most of my clients don't use forums/reddit
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gina G on 09 July 2018, 10:22:04 pm
Good point. just wait and see how the VPN use  thing starts to spread on the punters forums, reddits etc..and how fast they start learning how to use them once they need to get laid.

I hope so, I need to learn it myself. I also need to educate myself on the debate etc. I have posted the link on my website landing page and on my social media. If there's anything I can do let me know. We need to get organised on this x
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 09 July 2018, 11:08:08 pm
Most of my clients don't use forums/reddit

Actually mine do, maybe they "don't know how to use it" but most of them know what a VPN is. Specially all the arab and chinese clients whose governmental censorship of the internet is riffe. I've had a lot of conversations with them regarding this subject since Backpage went down. it's like Bitcoin, one of those things that at the begining nobody had heard of but then all of a sudden "it's the hype". Then again, i'm in London and deal with foreigners and the "professional crowd", I'm sure if i was in a rural area surely it would be different.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 09 July 2018, 11:40:43 pm
Actually mine do, maybe they "don't know how to use it" but most of them know what a VPN is. Specially all the arab and chinese clients whose governmental censorship of the internet is riffe. I've had a lot of conversations with them regarding this subject since Backpage went down. it's like Bitcoin, one of those things that at the begining nobody had heard of but then all of a sudden "it's the hype". Then again, i'm in London and deal with foreigners and the "professional crowd", I'm sure if i was in a rural area surely it would be different.

I'm in London too...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 09 July 2018, 11:50:38 pm
Kk, you got me 😆, so we'll have to "educate them". Let's get back on topic before we get in trouble :-) So what was the next step? letter to adultwork? i'm pretty sure AW are quite concerned and in conversation with their lawyers as I type this  (specially knowing how THEY and vivastreet are being targeted).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Ellie B on 10 July 2018, 01:38:20 am
I don't see how the Government can close down AW or the like.
They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Amazon and the like only pay 1% tax and the Government  won't close their site down or chase them for billions of pounds in tax they owe!
I really wouldn't worry about adult sites being closed right now.

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 10 July 2018, 01:59:55 am
Kk, you got me 😆, so we'll have to "educate them". Let's get back on topic before we get in trouble :-) So what was the next step? letter to adultwork? i'm pretty sure AW are quite concerned and in conversation with their lawyers as I type this  (specially knowing how THEY and vivastreet are being targeted).

there no proposed legislation at the minute. No tories seem to be supporting Sarah Champion's idea.  There is much more threat from the Nordic Model.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 10 July 2018, 02:13:33 am
A VPN won’t help you if the directories won’t list you and remove you which Is basically what happens in the states it wasn’t just about the removal of BP and it owners being arrested

Lots of sites including some Uk Escort directories have already removed American Escorts from there listings
 American sites like City vibe,  your dominatrix  verify him have all either closed or removed the forums
TER removed American Escort adverts

I have copied and pasted some of this
Because under  sesta/  fosta  they become responsible/ liable for those adverts that Escort post
Prior to this internet providers  wasn’t responsible for what people  was posted on it . They were protected by section 230of the 1996 decency act  .

Which is why BP and other sites could post obvious prostitution adverts and they weren’t responsible for what was posted .

But fosta / sesta creates a exception to this meaning that websites publishers would be responsible if third parties are posting adds for prostitution inc consensual sex work

Sites do not want to come under the microscope of the American goverment and be responsible for what people are advertising so to prevent this they have removed American Escorts / adverts

I haven’t done a full check but there are as far as I can see no American Escorts on AW any more  a few months ago there were loads in most cities of America

Because if there were under sesta/  fosta AW is responsible/ liable for those adverts
So rather than be responsible for the adverts the  directories just removed American Escorts

So if the Uk followed Sesta / Fosta they wouldn’t need remove the directories just the threat of being liable for what adverts Escorts place is enough to get sites to remove your advert profile

It won’t matter what county they are based in as sesta / fosta still says your liable

I think even Reddit removed its Escort /related subreddits even though they weren’t advertising Escorts . They don’t want to get screwed

 So VPN or not no ones going to find you if the directories remove you because if they do  they become liable for what you post / advertise .

Hope that makes sense 😂

If you look this up you will understand what it means much better than I have explained it
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 10 July 2018, 02:15:13 am
I don't see how the Government can close down AW or the like.
They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Amazon and the like only pay 1% tax and the Government  won't close their site down or chase them for billions of pounds in tax they owe!
I really wouldn't worry about adult sites being closed right now.
I’m sure that’s what all the American Escorts and people that used BP thought as well

 They don’t have to they just have to follow the sesta / fosta law which also means that sites have no become liable for prostitution adverts which is why AW removed  all the American based Escorts
Same as TER remove all adverts
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 10 July 2018, 02:15:50 am
I have literally just heard from an Aussie worker who is now doing street work due to back page going down. I can't get most clients to use google maps, let alone get a VPN
If locanto is still up and running that was always pretty good in Aus 
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 10 July 2018, 08:22:46 am
I’m sure that’s what all the American Escorts and people that used BP thought as well

 They don’t have to they just have to follow the sesta / fosta law which also means that sites have no become liable for prostitution adverts which is why AW removed  all the American based Escorts
Same as TER remove all adverts

I have no doubt that it is possible, I don't think it will get through parliament but that doesn't mean it's not a threat nor something we shouldn't act on.

I'm also bloody angry that VS apparently allowed such large accounts to go unflagged.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Kay on 10 July 2018, 10:15:17 am
I have no doubt that it is possible, I don't think it will get through parliament but that doesn't mean it's not a threat nor something we shouldn't act on.

I'm also bloody angry that VS apparently allowed such large accounts to go unflagged.

Me too - it should be obvious if pimps are putting up loads of ads. It's not like they don't charge enough to employ a couple of people at least to monitor this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 10 July 2018, 12:22:02 pm
Me too - it should be obvious if pimps are putting up loads of ads. It's not like they don't charge enough to employ a couple of people at least to monitor this.

Actually just remembered that not too long ago VS made a big thing about saying they were working with NUM/crime prevention and making donations to them etc. Trying to make out they were interested in sex worker safety.

What the blazes flaming happened?  :FF

Perhaps we should boycott them anyway?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 10 July 2018, 01:10:07 pm
Me too - it should be obvious if pimps are putting up loads of ads. It's not like they don't charge enough to employ a couple of people at least to monitor this.

Backpage was posting some very disturbing ads. I remember a while back when i was in New York and every now and them I would see an ad in the escort section that was wrong in many ways and backpage wouldn't do shyte about it. I believe the reason they went after BP was the 40 something lawsuits they had of women's families that have been trafficked (all run away teenage girls). The new website regulations where we all need to send a picture holding site name, passport etc... stops that situation.  In my opinion BP downfall happened because they got too $$ greedy, and viva is following with that.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 11 July 2018, 12:04:40 pm
Backpage was posting some very disturbing ads. I remember a while back when i was in New York and every now and them I would see an ad in the escort section that was wrong in many ways and backpage wouldn't do shyte about it. I believe the reason they went after BP was the 40 something lawsuits they had of women's families that have been trafficked (all run away teenage girls). The new website regulations where we all need to send a picture holding site name, passport etc... stops that situation.  In my opinion BP downfall happened because they got too $$ greedy, and viva is following with that.

Yet VS claim to have a strong relationship with NUM  :o ??? ::)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 11 July 2018, 02:03:20 pm
Yet VS claim to have a strong relationship with NUM  :o ??? ::)

Smoke and mirrors, PR as it's best. i mean... does VS have a screening procedure to advertise (photos, iD etc.. I've never advertise there so I'm just asking because i don't know).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 11 July 2018, 04:28:39 pm
i'm in contact with someone from AW. I can talk to him about this...
Have you contacted your AW contact, MRH?  If so, what is his response?
(I am holding off creating a template letter for us all to send to AW [& other sites] - if we are willing to - until you feed back on this as it might not be necessary then)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 11 July 2018, 09:53:01 pm
Have you contacted your AW contact, MRH?  If so, what is his response?
(I am holding off creating a template letter for us all to send to AW [& other sites] - if we are willing to - until you feed back on this as it might not be necessary then)

i haven't. What exactly do you want to ask them?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 11 July 2018, 10:16:39 pm
i haven't. What exactly do you want to ask them?
The following idea from Ana30 (which prompted you to reveal that you have a contact at AW and that you would discuss it with him):

"how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. Lets spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks."
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 11 July 2018, 10:21:52 pm
The following idea from Ana30 (which prompted you to reveal that you have a contact at AW and that you would discuss it with him):

"how about: we create a template letter with more or less what Paris said in the above post. then we all send it to adultwork. Lets spread the word through our blogs,twitter, switter and twatter and we get every one to sign the survey and every prossie to email adultwork. is anybody here good at creative writing? can someone write it then we can copy+paste it? thanks."

the survey closes Monday so i doubt there's time for that i'm afraid. Individual workers are promoting the survey. Also, as i've said above the survey isn't related to the OP.

"Are you going to propose a change in policy on prostitution and sex work?
No. This research is not about policy or law on prostitution and sex work. This is a piece of research to capture what is going on, rather than what ought to be going on.
Of course, we know that the prevailing policy and laws affect how prostitution and sex work is practised in England and Wales. It could also be that the government uses the data from this research to inform future law and policy. But such decisions and recommendations are not within our research remit."

here are the questions:

Is there any particular study, report or other publication that you think it is important that we pay attention to for this project? Please give
• Are there particular 'types' of prostitution and sex work that you feel need to be included in this project? Please give details.
• Are there particular individuals or groups that you believe we need to speak to? Please give details.
• Does your organisation collect numerical data on prostitution and sex work which you think would be useful for this project? If so, please give details and ensure your email is entered in Section 8 above.
• Do you have an experience that you think would help us to understand better what prostitution and sex work looks like today in England and Wales? If so, please give details.
• Please add any other comments in this section.

I have posted a link on suggested answers from ECP in the relevant thread.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 11 July 2018, 10:26:26 pm

the survey closes Monday so i doubt there's time for that i'm afraid. I have emailed him though.  I'm happy to talk to him about using AW to reach more sex workers at other stages in the research.  Individual workers are promoting the survey. Also, as i've said above the survey isn't related to the OP.

"Are you going to propose a change in policy on prostitution and sex work?
No. This research is not about policy or law on prostitution and sex work. This is a piece of research to capture what is going on, rather than what ought to be going on.
Of course, we know that the prevailing policy and laws affect how prostitution and sex work is practised in England and Wales. It could also be that the government uses the data from this research to inform future law and policy. But such decisions and recommendations are not within our research remit."

here are the questions:

Is there any particular study, report or other publication that you think it is important that we pay attention to for this project? Please give
• Are there particular 'types' of prostitution and sex work that you feel need to be included in this project? Please give details.
• Are there particular individuals or groups that you believe we need to speak to? Please give details.
• Does your organisation collect numerical data on prostitution and sex work which you think would be useful for this project? If so, please give details and ensure your email is entered in Section 8 above.
• Do you have an experience that you think would help us to understand better what prostitution and sex work looks like today in England and Wales? If so, please give details.
• Please add any other comments in this section.

I have posted a link on suggested answers from ECP in the relevant thread.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 19 July 2018, 06:01:12 pm
I've been meaning to reply a while ago.

we need to do both. not one or the other. If you feel passionately about this, why not get involved with one of the myriad of groups working on this and offer your time?

Good point. I'll get involved.
There is an abundance of activism out there that I wasn't aware of (because I wasn't interested...).

The only reliable way to get the majority interested is to hit them where they live, which is what we're increasingly seeing now that the attention is turning more to prossies like 'us' rather than prossies like 'them' and the talk has turned to the likes of Adultwork (plus the carry on with Backpage a few weeks ago). First they came for the street workers, etc....

It's a shite state of affairs that we have to have these sorts of discussions at all but since we do, long may it continue as it'll hopefully get more people involved :).

Shameful but true. I developed more empathy for US colleagues only after I lost all my income after closing down of Backpage  :-[
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Lustwander10 on 31 July 2018, 02:41:31 pm
After reading a news article online as of 2019 aw will or might be shutting down

Where does that leave us when it is completely legal in the UK

Whatever next ???
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 31 July 2018, 11:38:54 pm
After reading a news article online as of 2019 aw will or might be shutting down

Where does that leave us when it is completely legal in the UK

Whatever next ???

what was the news article?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: English Green on 02 August 2018, 03:28:36 pm
Backpage was posting some very disturbing ads. I remember a while back when i was in New York and every now and them I would see an ad in the escort section that was wrong in many ways and backpage wouldn't do shyte about it. I believe the reason they went after BP was the 40 something lawsuits they had of women's families that have been trafficked (all run away teenage girls). The new website regulations where we all need to send a picture holding site name, passport etc... stops that situation.  In my opinion BP downfall happened because they got too $$ greedy, and viva is following with that.

That does not stop it at all because the pimps would just get the women to hold the sign and passport especially the trafficked ones.

Easiest way to stop pimps is anyone advertising multiple women they do not take ads from those unsavoury characters.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 02 August 2018, 06:35:50 pm
That does not stop it at all because the pimps would just get the women to hold the sign and passport especially the trafficked ones.

Easiest way to stop pimps is anyone advertising multiple women they do not take ads from those unsavoury characters.

You have a good point.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: M_3 on 04 August 2018, 09:40:32 pm
After reading a news article online as of 2019 aw will or might be shutting down

Where does that leave us when it is completely legal in the UK

Whatever next ???

I've read  whole range of articles on the subject and nowhere have I found a precise estimation  as to when (if) those sites (it's not AW exclusively) are to be shut down.

Could you please kindly share a link ?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Nora batty on 05 August 2018, 09:29:44 am
I've read  whole range of articles on the subject and nowhere have I found a precise estimation  as to when (if) those sites (it's not AW exclusively) are to be shut down.

Could you please kindly share a link ?

That date is actually when the committee meets to make a decision.  I thinks she's jumped the gun a little.  It was just a news article, it didn't state aw we're closing down on that date, just that's when the committee hope to make a decision regarding Fosta.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 07 August 2018, 12:10:40 am
the committee isn't looking at FOSTA though...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 07 August 2018, 08:47:01 am
We are in the uk we don't have Fosta /Sesta laws
April 2019 or around that time is when the survey by Bristol Uni goes back to the government for further consideration

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 07 August 2018, 09:02:08 pm
We are in the uk we don't have Fosta /Sesta laws
April 2019 or around that time is when the survey by Bristol Uni goes back to the government for further consideration

It's not just the survey, it's a full research project. Bristol Uni researchers all support the Nordic Model
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 07 August 2018, 09:27:39 pm
It's not just the survey, it's a full research project. Bristol Uni researchers all support the Nordic Model
I would like to know why a group with such open, anti-prostitution bias was entrusted with one such project.  IMO, it makes the project look like nothing more than a token gesture of democracy.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: MsRedhead on 12 August 2018, 12:08:24 am
I would like to know why a group with such open bias were entrusted with one such project.  IMO, it makes the project look like nothing more than a token gesture of democracy.

because they scored the highest in the bid. There are several groups who are working to ensure that they adhere to the bid terms and to proper research methods
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Escortx on 06 September 2018, 05:13:23 pm
I've read we might be getting some laws later this year like America. Ones that could mean websites like adult work and advertising will be illegal.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: VoluptuousCurves on 06 September 2018, 05:22:49 pm
Unlikely, IMVHO.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 September 2018, 05:34:20 pm
Right now british internet laws fall under the umbrella of European legislation so the answer is NO, however after Brexit and once the UK is out of EU Britain can make their own laws and do whatever they want and ban as many sites as they please. Will they do it?

I have no idea.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ladyofthemansion on 06 September 2018, 05:47:25 pm
Right now british internet laws fall under the umbrella of European legislation so the answer is NO, however after Brexit and once the UK is out of EU Britain can make their own laws and do whatever they want and ban as many sites as they please. Will they do it?

I have no idea.

I doubt banning prozzie sites will be the top of their list after Brexit.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 September 2018, 05:58:59 pm
I doubt banning prozzie sites will be the top of their list after Brexit.

Not so sure ladyofthemansion, take the backpage lesson from the US: Once there was a bunch of ambitious American politicians and senators wanting to advance their career and made a target out of banning prostitution sites in order to er..." stop trafficking and protect women and children".. So FOSTA was passed by congress and Backpage seized. No politician or senator went against this because defending prostitutes would have been career suicide. We already have our  personal John Mc cain here in Britain, her name is Sarah champion, labour MP for Rohertham seems to have chosen banning AW and vivastreet as her favourite cause because she's probably fighting for a seat in parliament.

Ambitious politicians with an agenda that can get their asses in more desirable political position will always be around, brexit or not.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 06 September 2018, 06:14:31 pm
Prostitution and punting are illegal in the US. It's a very different situation when the argument is that keeping the sites is condoning, encouraging and promoting criminal activity and anybody defending them would visibly be doing likewise.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ana30 on 06 September 2018, 06:23:22 pm
Prostitution and punting are illegal in the US. It's a very different situation when the argument is that keeping the sites is condoning, encouraging and promoting criminal activity and anybody defending them would visibly be doing likewise.

Fair point, but there was a debate regarding banning prostitution websites in the house of commons two months ago, a cross-party group of MPs publicly said the owners of such sites "directly and knowingly" profit from sex-trafficking and wanted the Home Office to intervene. This is how it all started in the US. These british MP's concluded that prostitution procurement websites were "the most significant enabler of sex-trafficking in the UK".

Just like in the US British gov are shouting"criminal activity!" too.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 12 September 2018, 02:49:34 pm
Right now british internet laws fall under the umbrella of European legislation so the answer is NO, however after Brexit and once the UK is out of EU Britain can make their own laws and do whatever they want and ban as many sites as they please. Will they do it?

I have no idea.
As Amy mentioned it's would be career suicide for american senators to not agree with the Sesta / Fosta laws as prostitution was and always has been illegal in the states so they can't condone something that is already against the law
Prostitution is not illegal in the uk

If it happens and I think it would be unlikely more likely to go down the Nordic Model first before anything else  websites will probably just set up outside of the uk

Guys in the uk will use a VPN to access them

It's what happens in the Middle East and other places where advertising of sites are banned and sex is and prostitution is illegal

Wasn't there supposed to be some grand banning or age verification of porn site april this year
Whatever it was it hasent happend yet as far as I know
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 12 September 2018, 03:13:55 pm
Wasn't there supposed to be some grand banning or age verification of porn site april this year
Whatever it was it hasent happend yet as far as I know

They delayed it for now, but it's still happening.
Here's a useful website https://resistav.com/]https://resistav.com/


[link made non clickable]
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Juliet2020 on 29 December 2018, 07:03:00 pm
Does anyone know what’s happening with this? X
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Love.Sex.Dreams on 06 March 2019, 07:03:25 pm
We are in the uk we don't have Fosta /Sesta laws
April 2019 or around that time is when the survey by Bristol Uni goes back to the government for further consideration

It's almost April now. Will they outlaw porn sites too in the future? [press link removed - don't post these here]
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 07 March 2019, 09:29:51 am
It's almost April now. Will they outlaw porn sites too in the future? [press link removed - don't post these here]
They can’t outlaw porn  sites just get them blocked asking as you have a VPN you can still get on them
India outlawed all porn site and porn hub just put a mirror site on a different ULR
I did the government survey and got an email back a few weeks ago to say they were collating all the info to writing there report to give to the government.
Once the government has got the report it will take several months to look at it and do anything so nothing won’t hr happening yet

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gina G on 07 March 2019, 02:57:03 pm
I don't understand why they are doing this as most internet providers make you verify your age for adult sites. Surely they could tweak that to make it a blanket request from all providers for all adult sites instead of bringing out a new verification platform x
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Pretty Pink on 12 March 2019, 01:44:19 pm
Iv just read on my news app that from 1st April people will have to prove their age when accessing x rated sites. It’ll be interesting to see how this effects aw and other sites that are centred around service advertising. I know if I was a client I wouldn’t be overly impressed giving all my details.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: M_3 on 13 March 2019, 02:52:40 pm
This :

''AdultWork.com has been age-verifying members automatically since 2015.  If you have purchased credits via SMS, credit card or PaySafeCard then you are already age verified and your browsing experience will remain unchanged.  Similarly, if you are offering services and have achieved Verified Member status then you too will see no change.

If you have not age verified yet, we would invite you to do so without delay to ensure an uninterrupted browsing experience.  You can age-verify quite simply via this page.''
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Pretty Pink on 13 March 2019, 06:32:42 pm
This :

''AdultWork.com has been age-verifying members automatically since 2015.  If you have purchased credits via SMS, credit card or PaySafeCard then you are already age verified and your browsing experience will remain unchanged.  Similarly, if you are offering services and have achieved Verified Member status then you too will see no change.

If you have not age verified yet, we would invite you to do so without delay to ensure an uninterrupted browsing experience.  You can age-verify quite simply via this page.''

A lot of my clients don’t have a profile though they just pop on, grab the number and call.

One of my regs deleted everything cause his wife found an email from aw and he would never dare make another one, others Iv seen have said that was great, it’s a shame I can’t leave you feedback. There will be hundred other reasons why others don’t and won’t have profiles
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 18 March 2019, 07:20:27 am
 Ladies please read this... openrightsgroup.org/blog/2018/the-government-is-acting-negligently-on-privacy-and-porn-av

I urge everyone who is involved in the adult industry to write to their mp and protest about the new laws that are to take force on April 1st 2019.
I believie this is an attack on an adults privacy  not only are people being forced to use this age verification  and  it  could be open to hacking which will worry many people.

If you dont own a credit card you actually have to go into a shop and buy a porn card to access ! There are many people talking about this[redacted]

There are many messages on this thread saying it wont affect you as AW age verify that might be the case but I beleive this is just a spring board to banning porn look at the USA no webcam girls or escorting services on line now! I urge you to act now !  It takes minuites to look up your local Mp .  If you want to go further also write to the Margot James Minster for web safety at margotjames.com But I also urge you to contact your Mps as a matter of urgency this Bill has been rushed through .

AlsoSend your concerns to Jeremy Wright MP, Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.Email: jeremy@jeremywright.org.uk
If you need some ideas to put in your message read this about the concerns about privacy. With enough letters of protest ladies we could make a difference we arent we have a voice here use it please because one day like in the USA you wont have one! . There are enough safeguards in place for monitoring children on the internet and blocks without going to these extremes.


[Unnecessary links removed/redacted, some formatting corrected]
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 18 March 2019, 04:13:24 pm
Sorry to sound thick but can anyone give me any advvdvon what to write in my email with regards to the above post
I am more than happy to write to my MP and the other people mentioned in the post but not really sure what to write
Thanks
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 18 March 2019, 11:40:19 pm
Hi Paris  sorry I have searched the internet for a template to copy to make life easier for everyone but nothing sadly. I put something along the lines that I totally object to anyone in the uk who chooses to watch porn having to hand over persoaI data having to be verified for online porn the government are bringing in a law/regulation on porn sites which require UK citizens to be aged verified which means the requirement of personal data being handed over to the sites, the government need to make sure that each and every site complies with UK laws on data privacy because if they do not and some porn sites get hacked and personal data of UK citizens get into the hands of hackers, .If they dont own a credit card they have to purchase a "porn pass" from a shop !!   I also stated   how the  thought this would work is beyond me. This law will be overturned the minute there is a major breach of the database on one of these porn websites that leads to people’s identities being stolen and misused.
This is surely censorship  if so why are they hitting porn sites and not extremist terrorist sites such as those promoting the IS and thugs being targeted?

, it is not the sites fault that children can access them, it is the fault of the parents for not controlling what their children are doing BUT rather than blame these irresponsible parents, the government and children's charity groups blame the porn industry for not making it more difficult for children to access their sites. For years software companies have built software that integrates into web browsers to block access to porn sites. There is even 3rd party programs you can buy that block porn sites but yet again, rather than blame the parents for not using these resources and monitoring what their children are doing, people blame the porn industry, which has now ultimately meant that the huge majority of responsible, law abiding citizens will now have to give up their privacy if they want to watch porn.

Freedom and democracy is being over ridden totally and is a vast invasion of privacy.

I hope this helps somewhat if you need anything else please message.  I have had to quickly get this on as they are rushing it through for the 1st April and they have only just printed the full detials of what they propose in the media. if you want any more info please message..The yahoo forum is very informative and there are many comments (the link is in my last message) on there at least 400 stating there disgust at thsi proposed new law. People are outraged on this snooping and i believe just quest for data by the govenment. I hope you will fight this ladies i honestly  believe we could go the same way as the USA no webcams  online those ladies have lost their income !  no escorting online  this might just not affect you now and seem small  but it may just be the start be heard please while you have a voice.
Jasmine
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 19 March 2019, 12:07:48 pm
The yahoo forum is very informative and there are many comments (the link is in my last message)

Not any more, because we don't allow links on the forum and the rules make this clear. I've left a couple of the targetted urls, but if you want to direct people to the likes of yahoo or any other non-specific/press site you can do it by PM.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 19 March 2019, 01:04:11 pm
Apologies for the link to the comment section in yahoo for the discussion of the public not knowing about the new porn laws.I will not post any more links .
Kind Regards
Jasmine
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: UKdomme on 19 March 2019, 03:48:40 pm
Reading Adultworks blog written on their site in December, you will only have to age verify to view pay to view content such as private gallery's and films, people will still be able to browse the site and look at escort profiles without verifying.

I don't think any of this would be happening if it was not for the free porn sites and American free to view webcam sites making it so easy for kids to view porn. I am just glad for the moment that those of us that have our own websites advertising our services don't have to do this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 20 March 2019, 04:58:06 pm
Reading Adultworks blog written on their site in December, you will only have to age verify to view pay to view content such as private gallery's and films, people will still be able to browse the site and look at escort profiles without verifying.

I don't think any of this would be happening if it was not for the free porn sites and American free to view webcam sites making it so easy for kids to view porn. I am just glad for the moment that those of us that have our own websites advertising our services don't have to do this.

I read it that if you ( an escort ) and you haven’t self certified that your pictures on your profile page and free gallery isn’t suitable to be viewed by someone who hasn’t verified that they are over 18 then they won’t be won’t be able  to view properly    ie no titts /ass graphic stuff on the profile. Any photos that have that will be pixelated / blurred

  the only people that can view in full  it will get those who have verified they are over 18

So guys who haven’t verified that they are over 18!will  be able to those profile that have titts /ass photos on the profile / free gallery page / self certified but those photos will be blurred



Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: mlmcardiff on 20 March 2019, 05:46:02 pm
To be honest I've found the AW feedback thing less and less reliable over the years as AW has gotten more popular, perhaps. When it started it I found the feedback system pretty reliable in ascertaining who would be a good reliable client, now I find it as unreliable as anything else, email, phone booking, whatever. So in some ways if it means fewer men using the login booking form and just browsing and using the phone to call and book, on that front at least, I'm not too concerned. Notwithstanding that the whole 'feedback' thing works against is in many ways more than it does for us. A guy can get some bad feedback and just delete and set up a new profile, no biggie, for us there are bigger potential implications . Thats if I am understanding this correctly, if the law changes you'll need to age verify to login, or just to pay for porn? I guess that does mean possibly fewer PG credits but I've noticed (as have others) they've taken a huge hit in recent years anyway.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 20 March 2019, 07:12:14 pm
Hi UK domme

Things have moved on since December and the govenment have announced after the results of a survey that anyone using onine porn from April 1st 2019 will need to be age verified by credit card or have a "porn pass" obtained from selected shops.  There is uproar with the public as many feel they should not have to provide this information like this and it is open to abuse by hackers if you care to read the very informative report by the open rights group  it outlays their concerns the link is as followshttps://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2018/the-government-is-acting-negligently-on-privacy-and-porn-av

I urge you all to write as Ive said in previous messages this may not affect you now as Aw users but utimately it is disgusting that our clients have to go to these lengths when there are enough rules inplace to protect underage people from wathcing  there are many , many parental controls . Im sure this is just the start and ulitmately we may follow like the USA a total online porn ban there are no USA webcam girls now ! please let your voice be heard it takes minutes to write .

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 20 March 2019, 07:14:11 pm
...can anyone give me any advvdvon what to write in my email with regards to the above post...

With some input from the earlier post from Jasmine's World, I have just emailed my local MP with the following (and I will share any response that I may get):

***

I write in protest of the proposed UK-wide age-block on adult websites due to come into force on 1-4-19.

I understand that the point of the above measure is to protect children from pornographic material online.  To me, however, the answer to protecting children from such material is simple: responsible and authoritative parenting.  The numerous and long-available forms of porn-blocking software are amongst the tools to which parents have recourse in order to shield their children from adult material online.  According to my line of reasoning, then, the accessing of adult content online by individuals under 18 years of age is the fault of their parents.  Irresponsible parents alone, then, are the parties who should be targeted by any new laws designed to protect the under 18s from online pornography, as far as I am concerned.  As you can see, this precludes the idea or practice of an age-block affecting every single internet-user, the majority of whom being over 18 years of age.

Having to surrender one's privacy, such as is required by the proposed online age-verification process, in order to engage with a FULLY LEGAL activity - like visiting websites offering either legal pornographic material or escort adverts (or both) - I personally consider, furthermore, an obvious and unjustified infringement of freedom and autonomy.  The intrusive and controlling "nanny state", with its ongoing surveillance of the behaviour of adult individuals - as if they were children requiring "minding" - has no place in any part of the UK, in my opinion.  In ignoring the role of parents in the monitoring of their children's internet-use, the clamouring of certain government ministers and child-protection organisations of the apparent harm caused to children by online porn does nothing more, to my mind, than to demonstrate the flawed, disingenuous, and ignorant thinking of these groups as well as their obvious anti-freedom stance (as I see it).

Given the arguments which I have just presented to you, Mr Lammy, I urge you to lobby against the proposed UK-wide age-block on adult websites.

***

There you go.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Pretty Pink on 20 March 2019, 09:23:34 pm
So to clarify, clients will be able to browse aw without verifying their age but can’t buy PG or watch videos?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: UKdomme on 20 March 2019, 10:26:25 pm
It was horrible that Adultwork dumped US girls from webcamming on the site, a total over reaction to the FOSTA SESTA laws, all the big sites like myfreecams, streammate still allow them on there with no issues.

Unfortunately age verification has been on the cards for years now, most people wont remember ATVOD who were closing porn sites down a few years back forcing most UK based porn sites offshore to get round the rules, that was just the start.  Until a few months ago I was worried that my own site would be affected as the definition of a site that would need to age verify was very ambiguous.

I still believe though, reading Adultworks page on age verification, that people can still view our profiles without verifying  if we have certified our pictures are suitable, as Paris put below.  They have a page on it, that is still up so I believe it is current.

Unfortunately I can see censorship just getting worse, it is a good idea to contact our Mp's and support the Open Rights Group with their work.  I would hate for escort/dominatrix sites to be next on their list.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 21 March 2019, 12:15:48 am
I still believe though, reading Adultworks page on age verification, that people can still view our profiles without verifying  if we have certified our pictures are suitable

People can view our profiles regardless of this. I'm not logged into AW nor have I 'certified' anything, and I've just looked at mine.

Can we maybe take the detailed AW stuff over to that board now and not further derail the general discussion here? This

Unfortunately I can see censorship just getting worse, it is a good idea to contact our Mp's and support the Open Rights Group with their work.  I would hate for escort/dominatrix sites to be next on their list.

can hopefully get it back on track :)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 21 March 2019, 07:40:50 am
Hi

I think ive been misunderstood this law comes into effect on April 1st. Yes anyone can view now antything anywhere;  but from April 1st if this law passes No one without a porn pass or credit card will be able to view ANY porn online regardless of the site.

This is not about AW and how AW do thing it is about the govenment stopping All porn view without a pass or credit card/passport personal id being handed over.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 21 March 2019, 08:02:25 am
This is not about AW and how AW do thing it is about the govenment stopping All porn view without a pass or credit card/passport personal id being handed over.
Thanks.

I know that, which is why I posted above to get the thread back on track. Maybe you could explain what your stake in the whole thing is, since it's obviously a singularly important topic to you?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 21 March 2019, 10:49:29 am
Hi

I think ive been misunderstood this law comes into effect on April 1st. Yes anyone can view now antything anywhere;  but from April 1st if this law passes No one without a porn pass or credit card will be able to view ANY porn online regardless of the site.

This is not about AW and how AW do thing it is about the govenment stopping All porn view without a pass or credit card/passport personal id being handed over.
Thanks.

According to an item on BBC Radio last week this law is being delayed, it is not coming into effect 1st April 2019.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 21 March 2019, 11:15:01 am
Hi Amy and ladies

I will tell you what my personal stake is im incensed and  outraged that this attack on the porn industry continues for me as a cam girl of many , many years I  fear for my future and my wages ! Ive been pushed so much I have to stand up for us!  And im a quiet lady who keeps herself to herself but when push comes to shove !
I have cam friends in the USA that are now broke as they have been forced off line off the most popular site not only for that but escoritng services also .
 
Many women dont like their man watching porn how are they to get around this id , i feel they  could be open to hackers and it upsets me that my clients have to risk this !!  I see this as just the start I used to view tumblr for ideas for photo shoots  not copying ideas. I cannot do that now anything erotic or nude is barred !.  How can I stand by and do nothing ? Its a stand for democracy for an invasion of privacy im only one voice here but im on no other fourms and didnt know where else to put it.

Why havent I a voice why does this govenment keep pushing the nanny state when there are laws in place already so they can snoop on me and my clients ! and i have no idea  as yet if they will be charged for this porn pass but its a discrace that they have to do this .
 
I hope that answers your question.



Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 21 March 2019, 05:50:22 pm
I will tell you what my personal stake is im incensed and  outraged that this attack on the porn industry continues for me as a cam girl of many , many years I  fear for my future and my wages ! Ive been pushed so much I have to stand up for us!  And im a quiet lady who keeps herself to herself but when push comes to shove !
I have cam friends in the USA that are now broke as they have been forced off line off the most popular site not only for that but escoritng services also .

Yes, that's what I meant - I was wondering why this seems to be the only thread on the entire forum you have any interest in contributing to despite the many others discussing decriminalisation, the Nordic model, sex worker rights and so on, and obviously all the general topics on the other boards. We and our customers have been under attack for a very long time and continue to be, so I suppose we're used to it.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: LittleMinx2 on 26 March 2019, 04:54:59 pm
Sorry if this has already been asked but will people still be able to use adult work to hire escorts after April 1st? And will it affect me if I am already verified. The whole thing is pretty confusing to me and I am worried about how it may affect my escort work.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 27 March 2019, 08:34:10 am
Sorry if this has already been asked but will people still be able to use adult work to hire escorts after April 1st? And will it affect me if I am already verified. The whole thing is pretty confusing to me and I am worried about how it may affect my escort work.

Yes they will, and also all the many other advertising sites. They may have to jump through some hoops to see the pictures (which I think they're already doing) but the site is not being taken down, or at least not because of this.

As per these posts:
This is not about AW and how AW do thing it is about the govenment stopping All porn view without a pass or credit card/passport personal id being handed over.
Can we maybe take the detailed AW stuff over to that board now and not further derail the general discussion here?

Please keep this thread on topic. The universe doesn't revolve around AW, and we have plenty of space to discuss it elsewhere :).
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Tartwivaheart on 28 March 2019, 08:52:21 pm
So excuse me if I didn’t get the memo ...but twice this week Iv herd mentions of a new rule not allowing acces to AW /other over 18 sites unless age verified.
Which I can actually agree is a brilliant idea in one way but also I’m deeply concerned as I only advertise on AW ... I can imagine a lot of guys wanting to give details etc.

Does any one else know of this ?

With thanks , stay safe xxx
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 28 March 2019, 08:56:35 pm
Does any one else know of this ?

14 pages of thread above :)

As per my last post, this is not an AW specific thread, so if anybody just wants to discuss features and functions of the one site please start a thread in the appropriate section.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Lushblossom on 29 March 2019, 07:12:51 am
I think it may cut down on timewaster traffic you never know.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: regieeee on 29 March 2019, 04:12:38 pm
It would be reassuring for women (like myself) who were outed and punished. 

Currently, anyone can go straight to VIVA (any other advert sites) to see if they can ID a local whore.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Love.Sex.Dreams on 29 March 2019, 06:12:59 pm
Looks like it has been delayed past April 1st, according to an article I just read.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 29 March 2019, 07:35:19 pm
Looks like it has been delayed past April 1st, according to an article I just read.
According to an item on BBC Radio last week this law is being delayed, it is not coming into effect 1st April 2019.

And as posted here over a week ago :)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 30 March 2019, 07:26:14 am
Hi an update on the New Internet Porn Laws that were due to come into effect on the 1st April 2019.  For anyone that didnt read my previous posts the govenment are propising to introduce new age resriction bans on all Porn sites meaning that to access any porn site in the UK anyone over 18 must register personal information ID or go to a registerted  Newsagent outlet to purchase a "porn pass " at £4.99.
This  is of particular concern to me and to campaigners because as outlined by Open Rights Group and campaigners. The fears that by tying porn habits to internet identity  the govenment is is in effect creating a potential database of sexual prefrences.
If the database was hacked by hackers the information it contained could be used to shame and attack the person it idnetifies.  This could go horibly wrong exposing a person to blackmail, fraud and career damaging drain leaks.

 The people in charge of this censorship will be the British Board of Film Classification who have so far failed after repeated requests to give a public consultation on how this scheme will work .

Many  beleive this is a rushed through Conservative idea to apparently protect children from porn but many aruge there are already enough parental blocks in place and parents should take on the resposnability instead of subjecting porn watchers to this personal invasion.
Also  another point is why should someone be subjected to walking into there local Newsagents for a Porn Pass how embarrasing for them ! It is also open to the retailer spreadng gossip ! Sone Elderly people cannot drive out the area either ! What if the girlfriend/Wife finds the card all valid points and an invasion on privacy. Another point is where does this money go !
Is this another money making scheme for the govenment or spying !

Sorry this is long winded but the News is this law has been delayed, ( if you havent seen the above posts) The govenment are keeping it quiet why  ( I do hope they had some letters from you ladies influenced this decision  ) so I ask you aagain to write to your Mps.  If you want more  extra points to add to your letters  read the post below by  Braziliana   who      has given some good points for a message to your mp .  I previously asked that you also wrote to Margot Jones  and Jerremy Wright      who implimented this bill but I have had letter back saying they wont enter into any correspondance  which is disgusting as they implimented this Bill.  I have to write to my Mp so im wrting again and again to my Mp.
Thank you for reading this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: mlmcardiff on 30 March 2019, 07:27:35 pm
Who will be vetting this ID information, the porn sites themselves or the government or the BBFC? What evidence is there that this is or could be used to collect a database of people's pornography preferences? Genuine questions derived from confusion, but its hard to know how to feel about the concerns you have because some of them seem borne of rumour/conjecture?

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 30 March 2019, 11:36:05 pm
Yes, that's why it's best to get actual information from trustworthy legitimate sources rather than mishmashes of press speculation, and stick to discussion here. Despite the enthusiasm of some, nobody here can give solid, credible answers.

Since this has already been put back twice now and it's fair to say the government are fairly busy with other things, it's likely that solid answers regarding how any of the plan is supposed to work are going to be fairly tough to get from anyone at the moment. That said, since our right to privacy and many other things is largely entrenched in the European Convention for Human Rights, it'll likely soon become even easier to fuck it over without having to try at all.

Meanwhile, the VPN folks will flourish and the teenagers this is supposed to be protecting will all be over in the dark web rooting through the dodgier sites, because there won't be any filter to keep them out.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 31 March 2019, 09:54:09 am
I can just imagine going into my local shop
“Pint milk, 20 benson and hedges, and a porn card please  oh and I’ll have a lucky dip😂


Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: mlmcardiff on 31 March 2019, 11:02:53 am
Ah thanks Amy for clearing that up.

Its one of those things for me, I don't really mind the 'in theory' age identification for accessing adult entertainment, in the same way that it is de rigueur in RL contexts, alcohol purchase, 18+ cinema entry etc and I also don't think its entirely fair to blame parents for children accessing pornography - with the best will in the world that's a difficult thing to achieve, notwithstanding the myriad things parents often have to worry about anyway.

However I also appreciate that ID in the internet age is a slightly different ball game with potential privacy invasions/data collection and if there was some evidence that there was such nefarious intent or at least possibility in the way its structured that would worry me (well I wouldn't worry as I don't watch porn  but I would concede the worry was reasonable)  but it also feels very much like that cat is out of the bag in worse ways, in terms of what companies, government agencies etc 'know' or can know about us, effecting our ability to get jobs, rent houses, travel etc etc much more fundamental breadline issues than whether or not we can watch online free porn without having to identify ourselves.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: regieeee on 31 March 2019, 11:11:07 am
One quick look, this was all about protecting children accessing porn?
But, many some wiser or at least more cautious people naturally speculate that this would be a step towards banning these adult sites at some point (?). 

The more solid info is better than fear-driven speculation as commented earlier by other sensible, intelligent posters. I agree.

It would be nice to see a comment on these adult sites: "whore hounding" (whatever you phrase it) is an offence as women involved in this industry deserves the right to peace and privacy" just like anybody else.  My size has always been a giveaway.   I had a heart attack when I was outed.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 31 March 2019, 12:05:01 pm
It would be nice to see a comment on these adult sites: "whore hounding" (whatever you phrase it) is an offence as women involved in this industry deserves the right to peace and privacy" just like anybody else.  My size has always been a giveaway.   I had a heart attack when I was outed.

Regieeee with the best will in the world, harassment is already illegal and this proposed legislation is nothing to do with preventing harassment. If you want to discuss harassment and/or stigma and threats to sex workers then please do start a thread about it, but this is not the place to do so.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: regieeee on 31 March 2019, 02:29:31 pm
Thank you, Amy.   :)
I try to avoid the dark side of this industry as much as I could.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 02 April 2019, 01:14:23 pm
So far the guidelines for porn content are not clear (unless you market yourself as a porn provider).

I'm just thinking of a way to go around it, if you have your own website.
Can you have a bland and sanitised website so that it can be accessible to anyone without them having to jump through the loops of VPNs, porn passes and age verification?
And have a locked part of the website, like a membership part that would require age verification? With sexy stuff inside. Like a nipple.  ::)

The more I think about it, the more scary it looks.
You might think that a VPN is a simple solution, but what if they decide to ban them too? China already banned VPNs.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 02 April 2019, 04:14:13 pm
So far the guidelines for porn content are not clear (unless you market yourself as a porn provider).

I'm just thinking of a way to go around it, if you have your own website...
When it comes in, age-verification will only be required of commercial websites.  I believe that this rules out websites where no commerce takes place (websites representing an individual escort tending to fall into this very category, as you know).  If so, thank fuck!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: jasmines world on 04 April 2019, 07:06:46 pm
Hi All

I think I have been mis-understood.

The risk is real for our punters, not only Ashley Madison site had been hacked but many other major sites have been hacked over time.

Ashley Madison Hacked  -Wiki info
'In July 2015, a group calling itself "The Impact Team" stole the user data of Ashley Madison, a commercial website billed as enabling extramarital affairs. The group copied personal information about the site's user base and threatened to release users' names and personally identifying information if Ashley Madison would not immediately shut down. On 18th and 20th of August, the group leaked more than 25 gigabytes of company data, including user details.
Because of the site's policy of not deleting users' personal information – including real names, home addresses, search history and credit card transaction records – many users feared being publicly shamed.'

This is not about you personally  watching porn  but our punters. They will have to purchase proof of age which potensially puts them at risk from a data hack which as shown above exsists. Many punters do not want their personal infomation conected to porn. Risk of wifes, girlfriends and empolyment finding out what they do in their own personal time. They will have to use their credit card or go to a shop, either way its a risk they will not want to take.
The BBFC will monitor it ( British Board of Film Censors) not the govenment.

This is one of many steps for the goverment and do-gooders trying to stop or limit porn. In the U.S.A Donald Trump has banned cam girls altogether so is this the next step for the U.K. We have to protect our industry. The country is becoming more controling over what we can and can not do.

The Goverment has said in one of it's papers they have a concern that these new rules will push children and porn users into the dark web and VPN's. We may be not be involved in this side of things but the goverment has pointed out it will push children to this side of the web.  All the infomaton is there to read on the goverments web site but it is  very long winded; But all the formal papers are on Gov.uk under porn under age verification for porn online; if you care to go on to the govenment website it is fact I tried to stick to the main points my sources were from this and  the Open Rights group   and   had no intention of promoting rumour .  I was also asked a question about what should they put in a letter to their Mp? I simply voiced my concerns about the Internet Porn Identification Bill

Yes the bill has been put back and yes the goverment is busy but it is there and at some point will be pushed through. If no body objects then it will sail through and become law. 

Yes it is for commercial web sites but  is this the first step, whats next?

So All I am trying to do in the best will in the world is protect our jobs. The goverment is at some point going to bring in this bill. What is next? Look at America, they stopped cam girls over night. We all can say its speculation, rummers, press stories but the fact is to read on the goverments web site that an age verifiction scheme will be coming. Its not us you have to wory about its your customers. Men do not ike personal infomation about what they watch being out there. They have a lot to lose, and so do we if more restriction come.

I don't wont to sit back and do nothing then wake up one day and say shit, i didnt see that coming, wheres the nearest job centre?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gypsy on 17 April 2019, 05:14:09 pm
The law is being rolled out on July 15th now according to the media.

I wonder whether it will affect those who sell adult clips and do other stuff besides prostitution. After all people who want to buy digital content have to give some details about themselves.

And what about domination? That's huge, but is also a part of this industry.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 17 April 2019, 07:52:13 pm
...The Goverment has said in one of it's papers they have a concern that these new rules will push children and porn users into the dark web...
On BBC News at 6.00 today, this exact point was voiced by a university academic.  It was also acknowledged that many porn sites are based overseas and are accordingly out of reach, possibly, for the planned penalties  (namely, fines and / or being blocked, I believe) for their failure, if any, to comply with the age-verification laws.

I got no response from my local MP to my email of protest against this incoming law which I sent him last month. 
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: amy on 17 April 2019, 11:35:54 pm
And also by me (and plenty of others) well before that.

Meanwhile, the VPN folks will flourish and the teenagers this is supposed to be protecting will all be over in the dark web rooting through the dodgier sites, because there won't be any filter to keep them out.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: ParisB on 18 April 2019, 11:21:25 am
The law is being rolled out on July 15th now according to the media.

I wonder whether it will affect those who sell adult clips and do other stuff besides prostitution. After all people who want to buy digital content have to give some details about themselves.

And what about domination? That's huge, but is also a part of this industry.

Third time lucky then 😂
. First it’ was last year. Then this April. And now July

I think from my memory it applies  to those that have more than a third porn so regular escort sites would be ok

Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 18 April 2019, 12:42:49 pm
And also by me (and plenty of others) well before that.
Yes, and given both that and the news of yesterday,  I have re-emailed my local MP with an edited version of my previous message to him which now includes this point...but he may well just blank me again:

***

Dear Rt. Hon. Mr Lammy,

I write in protest of the proposed UK-wide age-block on adult websites due to come into force this July.

I understand that the point of the above measure is to protect children from pornographic material online.  To me, however, the answer to protecting children from such material is simple: responsible and authoritative parenting.  The numerous and long-available forms of porn-blocking software are amongst the tools to which parents have recourse in order to shield their children from adult material online.  According to my line of reasoning, then, the accessing of adult content online by individuals under 18 years of age is the fault of their parents.  Irresponsible parents alone, then, are the parties who should be targeted by any new laws designed to protect the under 18s from online pornography, as far as I am concerned.  As you can see, this precludes the idea or practice of an age-block affecting every single internet-user, the majority of whom being over 18 years of age anyway.

Having to surrender one's privacy, such as is required by the proposed online age-verification process, in order to engage with a FULLY LEGAL activity - like visiting websites offering either legal pornographic material or escort adverts (or both) - I personally consider, furthermore, an obvious and unjustified infringement of freedom and autonomy.  Law-abiding citizens, such as I believe the vast majority of the people of this country to be, do not deserve a "nanny state".   Moreover, in ignoring the role of parents in the monitoring of their children's internet-use, the clamouring of certain government ministers and child-protection organisations of the apparent harm caused to children by online porn does nothing more, to my mind, than to demonstrate the flawed, disingenuous, and ignorant thinking of these groups as well as their obvious anti-freedom stance (as I see it).  Moreover, in my opinion, it is blatantly and inexcusably wrong to derive laws from flawed, disingenuous, ignorant, and anti-freedom thinking. 

Lastly, as I understand it, the government itself believes that age-verification may simply lead to recourse, on the part of both children and adult viewers of online porn, to the so-called "dark web" (whose pornographic offering is, I am told, far more disturbing than that presented by mainstream porn sites).  There is also the fact that age-verification can be totally (and easily) bypassed by means of a VPN (virtual private network).  It is widely agreed, furthermore, that where accessing the apparently inaccessible online is concerned, the young are significantly ahead of older generations.  They know about both the "dark web" and VPNs, then, I believe, not to mention further possible means of accessing prohibited sites.  In my view, these points will rapidly render online age-verification dangerously counter-productive for some under-18s (who will turn to the "dark web", as may some over-18s as well) and wholly ineffective for others (who will turn to VPNs, just as many adult viewers of online porn may do as well).  To me, all these points present an extremely strong case for scrapping the plans for online age-verification (which, for the reasons that I have expressed above, is what I personally want) and cracking down, rather, on the irresponsible parenting (including the failure to make use of the widely available parental internet controls) which I believe is ultimately to blame for the under-age accessing of online porn.

Given the arguments which I have just presented to you, Mr Lammy, I urge you to lobby against the proposed UK-wide age-block on adult websites.

Yours sincerely,
Naomi Dixon.

***

...and even if he actually responds this time, he may well disagree with my arguments (which I mainly got from young Jasmine's World which saved me a lot of time :D )
(FYI, the name that I have used is fake  ;D )
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: seraphine on 20 April 2019, 03:24:20 pm
A bit of a side note to Age Verification - the government released a white paper on 'Online Harms', which aims to protect UK Internet users from digital threats including “behaviours which are harmful but not necessarily illegal.”
There are no clear guidelines for what 'harmful' actually means. (!!)

Open Rights Group says:
The government is asking for feedback on this White Paper until July, 1st. [As if they actually care about what people decide...  ::) >:(]

"We want the UK to be the safest place in the world to be online.'', they say about Age Verification.
There is a more appropriate word than 'safe', I think, and it's 'censored'.
Sex seems to be a very useful excuse to eradicate free speech.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 20 April 2019, 04:27:44 pm
Sounds like a handy way to censor, how will any of us know if our sites are suddenly blocked and what about errors?
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gypsy on 20 April 2019, 10:07:34 pm
I can see Adultwork getting into trouble with this seeing as they let so many people post explicit pics of themselves on their profile pic despite them saying this isn't allowed.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 21 April 2019, 03:12:12 pm
I can see Adultwork getting into trouble with this seeing as they let so many people post explicit pics of themselves on their profile pic despite them saying this isn't allowed.

AW only say it's not allowed if you have ticked the self-certify box, otherwise it's still free-reign.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: VoluptuousCurves on 21 April 2019, 04:59:52 pm
AW have two choices WRT explicit photos.

1. Hire moderators to comb through EVERY picture ever posted and remove non-nudes or flag them for pixellation
2. Pixellate every single photo on the site to anyone not logged in and verified.

Ultimately option 1 will probably be their best and cheapest option as they can hire off-shore piece workers.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: xw5 on 21 April 2019, 06:10:41 pm
Pixelating every image on a server is just a single line script and a little patience...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gypsy on 21 April 2019, 06:39:46 pm
AW only say it's not allowed if you have ticked the self-certify box, otherwise it's still free-reign.

I did not know this.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: VoluptuousCurves on 21 April 2019, 06:50:33 pm
Pixelating every image on a server is just a single line script and a little patience...

Yes - however it will severely impede their turnover. The profile pics and free galleries are what drive PG and webcam sales. (And ultimately bookings - none of us are going to carry on putting this amount of advertising on with them if it's not driving sales and bookings.)

(When I said "cheapest option" I actually meant "most profitable", sorry to be unclear.)
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gypsy on 20 June 2019, 12:05:26 pm
Just seen in the news that this porn ban has been delayed again indefinitely.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Belle on 20 June 2019, 07:29:19 pm
Actually, they just pushed it back by 6 months- I wonder how many clients will get a VPN to access AW- worrying times xxx
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: M_3 on 27 June 2019, 05:45:21 pm


 I bet come December it will be delayed again. Its a bit like Brexit  :D
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: DBLM on 28 June 2019, 07:24:30 am
Actually, they just pushed it back by 6 months- I wonder how many clients will get a VPN to access AW- worrying times xxx

AW said (somewhere) that anyone who has bought credits from them has by default given AW enough info to verify age.

Anyway, in general, I think this porn ban simpLy means using a VPN will become the usual way to browse the WWW in the UK. All sorts of printed magazines (aimed at older people) have been having front page articles on everything about VPNs for quite a while now.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: regieeee on 01 July 2019, 12:36:34 pm
Personally, that was all, I thought, initially.
What was all the fuss, I thought (initially).

But then I have also seen the governments using the "backdoor" approach, adding a few more rules/legislations that go against prostitution along with the new law. 

Politicans. . .
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: regieeee on 11 July 2019, 09:47:47 am
I think it's the Law.
Once it is laid, you cannot get it changed.

In UK, women need to be vigilant over what these deeply insecure feminazi that pretend to be "genuine feminists" are doing.  Stop any changes in laws around sex/porn etc etc.
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Braziliana on 16 October 2019, 07:29:07 pm
It's off; online age-verification has officially been scrapped.
It was announced in today's news.
Culture Secretary, Nicky Morgan, says that they are now working on a new way to prevent under-18s accessing porn online.
Authoritative parenting, along with recourse, on the part of parents, to parental internet controls, are what she should be aiming to enforce, IMO...
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Gypsy on 17 October 2019, 08:00:41 am
It's off; online age-verification has officially been scrapped.
It was announced in today's news.
Culture Secretary, Nicky Morgan, says that they are now working on a new way to prevent under-18s accessing porn online.
Authoritative parenting, along with recourse, on the part of parents, to parental internet controls, are what she should be aiming to enforce, IMO...

I saw this too. Good news all round!
Title: Re: Government trying to outlaw prostitution sites
Post by: Mirror on 17 October 2019, 08:22:19 am
However it would seem other options may be explored.