SAAFE forum
General Category => Politics and academic/media queries => Topic started by: SCOT-PEP on 26 May 2012, 01:15:04 pm
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And so it begins...
On the 23rd of May Rhoda Grant MSP made the first step towards launching a bill for the criminalisation of the purchase of sex in Scotland. It's not a bill, yet, but a request to the Justice Committee to let her get away with not doing a proper consultation of her own. You can read her Statement of Reasons here:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_MembersBills/20120523_SofReasons_Criminalisation_of_Purchase_of_Sex.pdf
She states that her bill doesn't need to go out for consultation due to the fact that a majority of respondents supported Trish Godman's bill at her (deeply flawed, biased and unprofessional) consultation. The Justice Committee will need to decide whether that is the case; they meet next on the 29th of May and then on the 19th of June, before parliament goes into recess on the 30th.
If you would like to keep up-to-date with the development of the bill and our response to it, please visit our forum on the SCOT-PEP website (www.scot-pep.org.uk), go to the Criminalisation Bill (Scottish Parliament) thread, read the post titled 'And so it begins...' and leave a comment. Any comment. You'll then be automatically notified of any new posts on that subject.
We're also, on a totally related note, actively looking for new members for our Campaigning Group; please see our post in the Sex Work Projects thread for more information.
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As I understand it, in order for this proposal to get any further, she needs to get 18 MSPs from at least half the parties in the Parliament to agree that it should.
Do the two independents count as two parties? If so, that would make four parties, but if they don't, that's three. She's Labour and there are enough SNP MSPs for there to be at least one who would support it. Are the Scottish Conservatives, LibDems and Greens going to listen to reason on this one?
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The short answer is, we don't know yet. We have some friendly faces in Holyrood who are looking into it for us.
If you don't mind, I'm going to post your questions on our own forums, and I'll be posting the answers there when we get them. Come, comment, and follow.
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I just want to add that to those of you in England and Wales who think this is no concern of thiers - if you ever tour in Scotland it will affect you if the law changes.
In any case I would like to believe that there is enough solidarity amongst us WGs that we would all care enough to find out more about what would be a step backwards for us in many ways.
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Yes her conclusion is that it would be best to concentrate on that at this time
I think a big concern is that, if this passes, then it will be but a stepping stone by which the other proposals for new offences (from Trish Godman) would be put forward at a later date - these are:
Engaging in a paid-for sexual activity;
Advertising paid-for sexual activities; and
Facilitating a paid-for sexual activity
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On the 23rd of May Rhoda Grant MSP made the first step towards launching a bill for the criminalisation of the purchase of sex in Scotland.
Write to her directly. It may make a positive impact.
Rhoda Grant
Contact Details
Parliamentary:
M1.06
The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Telephone: 0131 348 5766
Fax: 0131 348 5767
Rhoda.Grant.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
Constituency Office:
Queensgate Business Centre
1-3 Fraser Street
Inverness
IV1 1DW
Telephone: 01463 716299
Text relay calls welcome.
Fax: 01463 716572
Website: http://www.rhodagrant.org.uk[/b]
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You're goram (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gorram)right!
Please see my new thread in this sub-forum.
Thinks: How do they handle these 'inconveniences' in Columbia?
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This proposal is going before the Justice Committee on June 19th.
Let's hope common sense prevails or else we have one hell of a fight on our hands.
I'll keep you posted as and when I hear any news.
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Hi girls,
I have read this news this morning.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18498858
Why not legalize it instead to give us so many problems?
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Stupid ignorant b**** :FF :FF (sorry in vile mood anyway)
I'm sure she's spent LOTS of time with all these women who are 'victims' of prostitution.
And with all the women who do it of their own free will, for economic reasons and god forbid, those of us that actually enjoy it!
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not impressed at all reading that article ,were not all victims and not all our clients are abusers .
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Why not legalize it instead to give us so many problems?
Because 'it' isn't illegal, at least not yet.
(merged with original thread on same topic)
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I am delighted to say that the fast track approach today suffered an EPIC FAIL. ;D
Link here. (http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/bid-to-fast-track-bill-to-outlaw-prostitution-in-scotland-rejected-by-scottish-parliament-1-2362966)
Now begins the real lobbying.
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Now begins the real lobbying.
That's good to hear.
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not impressed at all reading that article ,were not all victims and not all our clients are abusers.
Interesting to know, that's for sure.
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Please write to this deluded lady before it is too late. Not that I think anybody will take much notice of her. For one thing, I reckon some of my clients have more sway than she does ;)
But it is important to let the public understand that we are not mindless idiots being oppressed and that, in actual fact, not only do most of us choose to do this, but we are also genrally better educated that the average person. In Ancient times, in certain places, we were even revered and historically speaking there is a damn good reason why this profession has never died out.
If I wasn't in the middle of writing a paper, for St Andrew's University, (yes, that's right, I am white and middle class, yet I still CHOOSE to be a sex worker), I would go into the flood of statistics concerning the rise in sexual attacks in areas where the purchase of sex has been criminalised. However, I'll have to leave that for a later date.
Poor woman, I wonder what kinda sex life she has, pretty damn >:( I imagine. Shame, I know a few ladies and men that would be willing to show her a good time. Sorry that was unnecessary ;D
Stay safe ladies. Ami xx
http://scot-pep.org.uk/having-voice/scot-pep-campaigns/criminalisation-purchase-sex
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I feel a huge concern that this will pass. i've contacted with my very detailed letter and email on why i oppose it but do you think there really is enough of us doing this to stop it?
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I personally do not see this new bill going through. Its the oldest profession going, the new bill would push prostitution under ground a place where they don't want it to go. They has been research done to prove that. But I know rhoda grant is like a dog with a bone. X
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I also did a detailed response despite the fact I'm not even working in Scotland anymore. Complacency is really dangerous here I think, it was up to all of us to get off our asses and repond to this. If you were one of those who didn't bother and this law does come into effect, then you have no right to moan and whinge about it.
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Hello!
Just wanted to put the links to Scot Pep's submission to Rhoda Grant where her arguments are being systematically destroyed one by one... it i quite a fun read! http://www.scot-pep.org.uk/having-voice/scot-pep-campaigns/criminalisation-purchase-sex (http://www.scot-pep.org.uk/having-voice/scot-pep-campaigns/criminalisation-purchase-sex) ( also links to NSWP, UKNSWP, IUSW, ECP and SWOU s sumissions ;D .... )
Best x
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Hi. Just followed that link and read the letter to rhoda grant. Must admit its all true. She's very misguided on this. Or shall I say.. She does not live in the real world. What she does not know she makes up. This is all very unfair. She will increase vunerability. Anyway let's hope our letters ect aren't fallen on deaf ears. :FF
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SWOU is interested in putting together letters sent by sex workers and allies. If you want to send your submissions, please email contact.swou@gmail.com. This might be useful if RG and co pretend no one opposed her bill proposal. Thanks!
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I will send my letter across to that email. But I did think when I sent a letter to rhoda grant would she even mention she got my letter and dissmiss it. :-\
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Check this out for the totally unbiased media coverage of the consultation from a Scottish newspaper ::):
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/health-experts-want-help-women-1708560
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^^^
:o oh dear... I thought the opening line which included the words 'vice trade' was bad ...it was all downhill form there, bloody awful.
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^^^
:o oh dear... I thought the opening line which included the words 'vice trade' was bad ...it was all downhill form there, bloody awful.
That article is completely unrepresentative, and for 'all' sex workers to be lumped into that article is wrong and competely inaccurate.
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what a joke.... Health experts?? UKNSWP's submission which represents most service providers in UK is clear: No to criminalisation. And they are the one who work with the most vulnerable sex workers, including street workers / drug users....
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Does anybody know when it actually goes to parliment for a decesion to be made?
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Just came accross this link, thank the lord for free thinkers and the real independent press:
http://www. theskinny.co.uk/deviance/features/303496-opinion_rhoda_grant_the_sacrificial_sex_worker
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http://www. edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/capital-scraps-sauna-licensing-1-3292604
Well, looks like they've got one part of what they want :(
[Link edited to make non-clickable]
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jeanurquharthighlandsandislandsmsp.wordpress.com/
Just to bring this up to date, especially as I've just read the "Unsettling News" thread (non-sticky) which worries that the Nordic system is to be imposed in Scotland in the next few months. There's nothing currently going through the Scottish Parliament, so that now looks unlikely.
The crackdown on Edinburgh saunas was as a result of the personal policing ideology of Sir Stephen House, heid bummer of the single authority Police Scotland, rather than any change of heart by the SNP Government. House has announced his resignation due to other fuck ups by the Force, including the M9 deaths (where two people were left in a crashed car for three days after an incorrrectly-handled 101 call, and both died where at least one might have survived) and the death in custody of a man in Kirkcaldy, so we won't have to worry about him for much longer.
Jean Uruqhart is an Independent MSP who has taken up the reins on the topic of decriminalising prostitution, where the late, great Margo MacDonald laid them down. Please take the time to read her consultation document, and respond if you can.
[link made non clickable]
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My apologies, Amy, I should have thought.
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The SNP conference recently passed a motion to criminalise the purchasing of sex in Scotland. It doesn't sound like they are going to put it out to consultation as previously in which case that will become law.
Terrible news for Scotland and Scottish working girls.
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I suspected they were going to follow suit with this. My blood really just ran cold here.
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I believe it will be rejected again. Men will end up moving out of Scotland, go abroad etc. The liberal media/Parliament won't put up with the insane laws.
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I've been DMing SCOT-PEP last night.
Not going down without a fight - no pun intended.
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I'm so disappointed.
Looking at a summary of what was said by the SNP delegates and it looks like the usual paternalistic bullshit, shutting down of sex worker voices and total lack of understanding of the practicalities of what the law will actually do. Arguments made with no nuance, as usual.
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I've been DMing SCOT-PEP last night.
Not going down without a fight - no pun intended.
Good for you. I got so mad and upset about the ignorant biased views of supporters of this I had to come offline a few days to keep my sanity. First Ireland, then Scotland - I don't think people in England should be too complacent about this, it's like a creeping nasty plague.
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I've often got the impression that the SNP sort of ties in with the more puritanical views in parts of Scotland? There are so many sex scandals involving English, Tory MPs I don't think they'd dare changes things!
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And, there is this Indyref, too....lots of changes. How this will affect escorting, I dunno.
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About two years ago I had a client who was on the know who warned me this was going to happen by hook or by crook NS was going to get her wish. :( But in saying that girls will find a way around it, there is no way that they can sit outside your house 24/7 waiting for a client to turn up seeing as they wont be able to arrest you.
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if it's anything like ireland,ladies will stilll work....men perhaps may stick with regular girls they are familiar with....
However I am still greatly displeased by this, not a good move... what the hell is happening!!!!!
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It still has to get through Holyrood.
Scot-pep are doing quite a lot on this.
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It still has to get through Holyrood.
Scot-pep are doing quite a lot on this.
Indeed it does, but I don't hold out much hope since I don't think any of the other parties have a track record of being emancipated about this
The strange thing is the reason it didn't get through last time is because the SNP opposed the original Labour proposal! Complete U turn or what
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There is an article in the Independent today, with many comments criticising the decision. It appears that there is still a sizable chunk of the SNP who do not agree with it either, plus the Green Party are for full decrim.
I would like to hope that with the possibility of indyref2 on the horizon, considerable pressure being placed on the SNP may make them realise they are ultimately going to kick an own goal. They want indyref2 - remember that. I am still discussing things with people at SCOT-PEP. There is a lot being planned and discussed. And the Green Party were on our side.
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How long Do you think it will take to make it official ? If it goes threw I hope it doesn't .
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Guy will Proberly be even more paranoid of hotels now .
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There is a local authority election in May, they will likely be waiting to see how they fare at that as well. Again, with indyref2 chattering, it is going to bring out unionists and ardent Yes supporters. Personally I will be changing my support to the Greens - I've never been a dyed in the wool SNP supporter, never quite forgiven them for Souter, and now they're happy to expose themselves as the SWERF party, I'm out.
I would say that if you do live in Scotland and are registered to vote, you do hit the SNP where it hurts - the threat of losing indyref2. People do not think they have voices when it comes to governments when they do; it would appear that the SNP chose to ignore, shout down and patronise people at Aberdeen. You have more than a vote.
But if they want to depict us as stupid little 'Prostituted Women' who need saved, Ash & co are in for a rude awakening.
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So all the research that's done on sex work, have they learned nothing ? Maybe they focus too much on the workers and not enough on the clients ? From my side of the coin, I can see it as a marriage saving service, seriously, if anyone carried out thorough research the conclusion would be favourable to keep it legal, by criminalising it they are scaring men from seeking services, which will then result in sexually frustrated men all over the place, higher divorce rates, higher domestic violence rates, higher sex crime rates, higher affairs, higher depression rate...the list would go on and on...
This move is not constructive at all, they should change the laws in favour of sex work and allow girls to work in 2's for safety and cost efficiency.
Stop focusing on the act itself and look at making it safer, eradicate the pimps and brothels who extort the girls, make it so that it is more regulated and accepted as an occupation.
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Okay, now I can be relatively open about some stuff - there is also a lot more to follow. Keep an eye out on independent Scottish media - there will be things being released in the coming weeks. Positive things!
SCOT-PEP will also pay travel & childcare costs for those who want to get involved in SW activism and can travel to Edinburgh. It is also sex worker-led and they are lovely. I will be around to help with policies as well as other things in response to the SNP move, so there is a lot of things going on behind the scenes. You don't have to put your working name, let alone your real name, to anything, so please don't feel your voice won't matter or you can't speak out.
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I would advise you all to have a look on the National - I can post the link here but not sure if Amy would want the traffic being sent so I've edited it :)
Positive stuff.
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As published in the National today, a group of us have started SexWorkers4Yes - an activist group with a pro-independence stance, but also seeking to make our voices louder against the SNP policy.
You don't have to be political and you don't have to put your working name out there if you would like to remain totally anonymous. We are sex workers representing sex worker voices in Scotland. But we are working quite hard to get our voices heard, especially in the height of ScotRef/indyref2. If you would like to be a part of it, please either drop me a PM or you can find us on Twitter/Facebook.
Apologies if this isn't the right place to post this.
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Thanks for posting this - It's hugely important to have this brought to attention and for use to support scotland. I would be very dishearted to hear of this ever going through.
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Just saw this come up on the news BBC one Scot. It was a debate at some conference. Hope the bill does not pass
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Just saw this come up on the news BBC one Scot. It was a debate at some conference. Hope the bill does not pass
It was the Scottish Lib Dems who had a motion to reverse their support for decrim and instead support the nordic model. The motion didn't pass.