SAAFE forum
General Category => Politics and academic/media queries => Topic started by: Jackman on 12 March 2012, 05:14:02 pm
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Hi,
My name is Jack and I work for a multimedia agency that produces features and documentaries for some of the biggest newspapers, magazines and broadcasters in the world.
I am writing a feature about sex workers who are funding college/university courses or working to fund their future business plans and careers.
I wanted to see if there were any ladies out there who would be willing to talk to me about their experiences of this.
If this sounds like something you might be interested in, you can contact me at jack.mckay@barcroftmedia.com or call 0845 370 2233.
Sincerely,
Jack
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While I'm not willing to talk about this in person, I think this is an interesting topic, so will reply here...
I want to keep chickens and have a smallholding. That ain't gonna happen if I rely on my other income.
So while it's not for uni or a career, it's definitely for my future business plans :)
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What it's so interesting for what prostitutes spend their money and why you assume that for studies/career? Same would you make a document on car seller who work to support his collage education?
If you will make the document, please, at least try to show a real prostitution side, not stereotypical woman that spreed her legs and earns 2000 pounds a day, what all british media are showing last months.
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Hi guys, thanks for the replies.
Cat_BBW - I would love to speak with you at a later date when you make that dream a reality. Good luck.
Candy - I don't assume that all of the women on this forum are using their income to support a college career, but I would like to speak with anyone who is.
"If you will make the document, please, at least try to show a real prostitution side, not stereotypical woman that spreed her legs and earns 2000 pounds a day, what all british media are showing last months."
Absolutely, that's not what I want to do. I want to speak with someone who can show me the real side of the work, and explain why they are doing it. I'm sure there are many women out there who have aspirations for other careers but who need the money they can make to fund the transition.
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I also think such research is interesting, and agree with Candy that a more realistic representation of the industry would be nice i.e. women working very hard to keep men happy and earning between ?80-250 an hour (I know there are people who earn less or more than this, especially if they hand over a house-cut to anyone, but I would hazard a guess that most indoor workers fall somewhere in this range.)
Something else I would like to see, however, is prostitution being accepted as a legitimate choice for women. Often 'she's funding her studies' or 'she can't earn this much anywhere else' is used to excuse or explain away the woman's choice to work in the sex industry. I get asked by clients all the time whether I'm paying for my studies, or paying off debts: they presume I'm in the industry because I need the money. Well, yes, maybe I do, and yes, many women are funding their studies or their futures through their work in the same way that others do with other kinds of work, but sometimes it seems like you have to have this 'reason' behind your decision if you're going to be a sex worker. It's like you have to prove that you really need to be a sex worker to achieve your dreams, or else it seems like you're just 'doing it' and it's not quite so acceptable. We've kind of begun to consider it as a positive and empowering choice, but only when it leads elsewhere.
Something similar happens here in this NSFW video of former-porn star Sasha Grey. She's proud of her achievements in the sex industry, and we begin to get a 'I'm happy with the choices I made about my own body' view, but then that's quickly whipped around to 'but it's only okay because porn is the only way to get pay equality'. The gender pay gap is incredibly important, but it makes me sad that we still can't see a person's decision to work in the sex industry as good enough on its own, without the disclaimer of 'I'm only doing this because ...'
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Hi improbablecats,
Yes, that would be interesting. I've often heard/ read equal rights campaigners saying there's little chance a woman would go into prostitution of their own volition and that there must always be a certain amount of coercion involved. I always wondered if this was the case. Now that some of the stigma around sex work is beginning to wane I think a more complex picture of those industries and its workers is beginning to emerge. No doubt there are as many reasons for entering into it as there are people doing it. However, like in any industry there will be certain broad truths and common experiences that form a general experience. I'm not looking to generalise or categorise with my feature, however, I know the area which interests me and hope to find someone who can shed more light on it.
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Get yourself off to Bristol where most of the students are selling themselves for ?30 a pop ................................
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I think its really important, that whatever slant your research has, that it puts things into context and recognises that the reasons for going into the sex industry are like a many sided coin - multiple and varied.
I think we would all agree that it would be nice to see some research that did not perpetuate the same tired old stereotypes that are usually portrayed in the media/print.
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Out of interest, what are those tired stereotypes and what would be a really refreshing approach to a story about sex workers?
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The approach would have to be your own.
The stereotypes are :
most prostitutes are drug addled street workers controlled by pimps
many prostitutes are trafficked or otherwise forced into it
all prostitutes are young blondes with pneumatic boobs and a low IQ
no woman could ever voluntarily go into the sex trade
no women could ever enjoy working in the sex trade
all prostitutes work illegally and don't contribute towards the economy in terms of taxation etc
(of course all these exist but they don't constitute the whole)
Little mention, if any is ever made of the majority of escort working indoors who do it of their own free will - for economic reasons sure, but doesn't mean to say theres no enjoyment there.
This is because the truth is too boring for our (often) sensationalist media and because it suits them to perpetuate the stereotypes.
Many women may be working off debt, or working whilst studying, or working towards something else but there are also many who are proud to be working women, and see it as a profession in its own right.
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Why not question a government who makes prostitution legal , so they can collect taxes . Yet only allows us to be legal if we work on our own, thus subjecting us to extremely high levels of risk, that would not be tolerated in other professions .
Taxation without representation is tyranny some one once said. Not a sexy headline though !
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[...] I've often heard/ read equal rights campaigners saying there's little chance a woman would go into prostitution of their own volition and that there must always be a certain amount of coercion involved. I always wondered if this was the case. Now that some of the stigma around sex work is beginning to wane I think a more complex picture of those industries and its workers is beginning to emerge. No doubt there are as many reasons for entering into it as there are people doing it. However, like in any industry there will be certain broad truths and common experiences that form a general experience. I'm not looking to generalise or categorise with my feature, however, I know the area which interests me and hope to find someone who can shed more light on it.
Bleh. "Coercion"? How about the shocking, SHOCKING fact that everybody needs to earn an income? What about the men and women who are forced by financial need into taking jobs cleaning streets and toilets, and who are ignored every day by hundreds and hundreds of people who won't even look them in the eye? Isn't that degrading and disgusting? Would you want your daughter cleaning hotel toilets? Would you want your son sweeping the streets?
Oh wait, that doesn't involve sex and therefore doesn't cause knee-jerk reactions and won't contribute to titillating headlines.
The sooner people get their stupid heads around the fact that a job is a job is a job, and that hundreds of thousands of people in this country have to do slightly 'icky' things (i.e. things that comfy middle class people wouldn't dream of doing in a million years) to earn their living and get by in life, the better. There's no "shock horror sex" to it - I mean, if you want to look into the really interesting issues around prostitution, why not look into why paying for intimacy (sometimes physical, sometimes emotional, often both) is such a common thing for so many (millions) of men of all ages and backgrounds and whatnot to do? I don't mean that critically, I just think it's a really interesting question. Find some comfy middle class husbands and get them to talk honestly about the local brothel they frequent - why do they go? Which girl(s) do they see there? What do they like about them and their services? - or their favourite agency they use to arrange for girls to visit them at home when the wife's out - do they like the thrill of risking being caught? Or do they secretly wish their wife would find out and get upset and just leave, because the marriage is dead?
Ask both the husbands and the wives why they got married and plan to stay together forever even though they have zero physical desire for each other anymore? Ask them whether she knows about him paying for sexual services even though maybe she doesn't mention it and doesn't mind as long as it's kept quiet? Get them to talk about what they really think monogamy is/means/should be. Those are the sorts of things *I'd* be really interested to read about in an article about prostitution! There are tons of double standards and hypocrisies and unspoken conflicts in every day life, especially when you're looking at your typical middle-aged married couple. People's lives are often very interesting under the surface! And that would make for some far more interesting articles than "woman needed money, woman went into sex industry and performed sexual acts for money, woman ate a nice salad with salmon for dinner because working in the sex industry doesn't make you into some sort of shocking sex freak because it's just a job that pays the bills and can be fun and can be tiring and can be interesting, just like any job really".
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Bleh. "Coercion"? How about the shocking, SHOCKING fact that everybody needs to earn an income? What about the men and women who are forced by financial need into taking jobs cleaning streets and toilets, and who are ignored every day by hundreds and hundreds of people who won't even look them in the eye? Isn't that degrading and disgusting? Would you want your daughter cleaning hotel toilets? Would you want your son sweeping the streets?
Oh wait, that doesn't involve sex and therefore doesn't cause knee-jerk reactions and won't contribute to titillating headlines.
The sooner people get their stupid heads around the fact that a job is a job is a job, and that hundreds of thousands of people in this country have to do slightly 'icky' things (i.e. things that comfy middle class people wouldn't dream of doing in a million years) to earn their living and get by in life, the better. There's no "shock horror sex" to it - I mean, if you want to look into the really interesting issues around prostitution, why not look into why paying for intimacy (sometimes physical, sometimes emotional, often both) is such a common thing for so many (millions) of men of all ages and backgrounds and whatnot to do? I don't mean that critically, I just think it's a really interesting question. Find some comfy middle class husbands and get them to talk honestly about the local brothel they frequent - why do they go? Which girl(s) do they see there? What do they like about them and their services? - or their favourite agency they use to arrange for girls to visit them at home when the wife's out - do they like the thrill of risking being caught? Or do they secretly wish their wife would find out and get upset and just leave, because the marriage is dead?
Ask both the husbands and the wives why they got married and plan to stay together forever even though they have zero physical desire for each other anymore? Ask them whether she knows about him paying for sexual services even though maybe she doesn't mention it and doesn't mind as long as it's kept quiet? Get them to talk about what they really think monogamy is/means/should be. Those are the sorts of things *I'd* be really interested to read about in an article about prostitution! There are tons of double standards and hypocrisies and unspoken conflicts in every day life, especially when you're looking at your typical middle-aged married couple. People's lives are often very interesting under the surface! And that would make for some far more interesting articles than "woman needed money, woman went into sex industry and performed sexual acts for money, woman ate a nice salad with salmon for dinner because working in the sex industry doesn't make you into some sort of shocking sex freak because it's just a job that pays the bills and can be fun and can be tiring and can be interesting, just like any job really".
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100% amen to that. You tell 'em. :)
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[...] I've often heard/ read equal rights campaigners saying there's little chance a woman would go into prostitution of their own volition and that there must always be a certain amount of coercion involved. I always wondered if this was the case. Now that some of the stigma around sex work is beginning to wane I think a more complex picture of those industries and its workers is beginning to emerge. No doubt there are as many reasons for entering into it as there are people doing it. However, like in any industry there will be certain broad truths and common experiences that form a general experience. I'm not looking to generalise or categorise with my feature, however, I know the area which interests me and hope to find someone who can shed more light on it.
Bleh. "Coercion"? How about the shocking, SHOCKING fact that everybody needs to earn an income? What about the men and women who are forced by financial need into taking jobs cleaning streets and toilets, and who are ignored every day by hundreds and hundreds of people who won't even look them in the eye? Isn't that degrading and disgusting? Would you want your daughter cleaning hotel toilets? Would you want your son sweeping the streets?
Oh wait, that doesn't involve sex and therefore doesn't cause knee-jerk reactions and won't contribute to titillating headlines.
The sooner people get their stupid heads around the fact that a job is a job is a job, and that hundreds of thousands of people in this country have to do slightly 'icky' things (i.e. things that comfy middle class people wouldn't dream of doing in a million years) to earn their living and get by in life, the better. There's no "shock horror sex" to it - I mean, if you want to look into the really interesting issues around prostitution, why not look into why paying for intimacy (sometimes physical, sometimes emotional, often both) is such a common thing for so many (millions) of men of all ages and backgrounds and whatnot to do? I don't mean that critically, I just think it's a really interesting question. Find some comfy middle class husbands and get them to talk honestly about the local brothel they frequent - why do they go? Which girl(s) do they see there? What do they like about them and their services? - or their favourite agency they use to arrange for girls to visit them at home when the wife's out - do they like the thrill of risking being caught? Or do they secretly wish their wife would find out and get upset and just leave, because the marriage is dead?
Ask both the husbands and the wives why they got married and plan to stay together forever even though they have zero physical desire for each other anymore? Ask them whether she knows about him paying for sexual services even though maybe she doesn't mention it and doesn't mind as long as it's kept quiet? Get them to talk about what they really think monogamy is/means/should be. Those are the sorts of things *I'd* be really interested to read about in an article about prostitution! There are tons of double standards and hypocrisies and unspoken conflicts in every day life, especially when you're looking at your typical middle-aged married couple. People's lives are often very interesting under the surface! And that would make for some far more interesting articles than "woman needed money, woman went into sex industry and performed sexual acts for money, woman ate a nice salad with salmon for dinner because working in the sex industry doesn't make you into some sort of shocking sex freak because it's just a job that pays the bills and can be fun and can be tiring and can be interesting, just like any job really".
Huzzah. And what a salmon salad it was! :P
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I love all this crap about we are 'coereced' into it (that's the poor sods who are trafficked, not us) or that we only do it cos we are drug addicts (yeah right, I don't touch never would touch and never have touched drugs)!
'Would not go into prosititutiion outside of her own volition' - ha ha!! PMSL! What?! Yeah, cos that's the only acceptable reason, yeah? To be forced - oh god, get over yourself, please.
Maybe if men stepped up to be what they r supposed to be as men, we women wouldn't be in this position?
And also an interesting point, how many men would be willing to consider going out and being prostitutes to ensure that their kids had what they needed? Absolutely none I should think.
I imagine, jackman, you have opened a can of worms u didn't expect.....
We aren't 'forced' into it and as per what I said in my post, you want to look at the real reasons most women get into it. We have children to provide for. End of. It's a job. End of.
Some need it for college, many of us need it to pay our monthly bills and keep a roof over the most precious things in the world - our children.
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Well said as always Emily :)
Very much agree with the point that it would be so much more interesting to look at WHY our clients are our clients.WHY the typical middle aged married man wants/needs more than his wife.I often wonder if we could have a national sexual survey,where you could reply secretly,what the outcome would be re men using escorts,am pressumming it would be a high percentage,and would be interesting to know what they think/feel also,their situation,do they really love their wives?Some how I don't think this survey will ever happen lol.Maybe we could have one on here.
I do escort for financial reasons firstly.But I do enjoy the thrill,the meeting of people that I would not normally meet,to hear different stories,different career paths- I know all about the ups and downs of a married gp ( pardon the pun was actually unintentional ),the stories of a master who travels around with a slave to different masters venues around Europe,the a and e docter meeting in his room next to a and e for a quickie with me ( very naughty but hey was such fun ).Could go on and on but better not.I like the fact that I am in an exciting role,not just sexually,but as a package.
I also like that it is a very individual role,a very demanding one in ways you would never imagine, and you do have to be a special kind of person to do well in it.
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I love all this crap about we are 'coereced' into it (that's the poor sods who are trafficked, not us) or that we only do it cos we are drug addicts (yeah right, I don't touch never would touch and never have touched drugs)!
'Would not go into prosititutiion outside of her own volition' - ha ha!! PMSL! What?! Yeah, cos that's the only acceptable reason, yeah? To be forced - oh god, get over yourself, please.
Maybe if men stepped up to be what they r supposed to be as men, we women wouldn't be in this position?
And also an interesting point, how many men would be willing to consider going out and being prostitutes to ensure that their kids had what they needed? Absolutely none I should think.
I imagine, jackman, you have opened a can of worms u didn't expect.....
We aren't 'forced' into it and as per what I said in my post, you want to look at the real reasons most women get into it. We have children to provide for. End of. It's a job. End of.
Some need it for college, many of us need it to pay our monthly bills and keep a roof over the most precious things in the world - our children.
Well said Bannamuffin!!!! And Emily too!
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To be honest, the conversation isn't going in the direction I had assumed but it's nevertheless very interesting.
I've no idea how you would go about collating the data for a survey about why men pay for sex but I bet it would go some way to changing perceptions about sex workers.
I'd be really interested to speak to any of you about why you do what you do, which would challenge ideas about what a sex worker is.
If any of you want to get involved in a feature you can email me at jack.mckay@barcroftmedia.com
Many thanks!
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Well said Emily!
On the other hand, what about those women that marry a man purely for his money? Why not do research on them? Oh, maybe they are also coerced into it!
I also get vexed with this stereotyping of us. Assuming we are doing it for various reasons and assuming we are co-erced into it.
We have our own reasons and why the hell should we divulge that to the whole world? It's our business and nobody else's. We do a job, like everyone else. We provide a service, a very therapeutic one! It keeps the world going round and it's, as the saying often says, the oldest profession in the world.
Jenny
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To be honest, the conversation isn't going in the direction I had assumed but it's nevertheless very interesting.
I've no idea how you would go about collating the data for a survey about why men pay for sex but I bet it would go some way to changing perceptions about sex workers.
I'd be really interested to speak to any of you about why you do what you do, which would challenge ideas about what a sex worker is.
If any of you want to get involved in a feature you can email me at jack.mckay@barcroftmedia.com
Many thanks!
Considering that you've got a thread full of the real thoughts of real prostitutes right here and you're still just saying, "Oh, very interesting ladies, you have opened my eyes etc etc but I shall be still writing exactly the same article that I intended to at the start", it seems unlikely that anyone's going to be keen to get involved. I've told you exactly WHY most of us do our job. You're just not remotely interested in the answer because it's not what you're looking for.
A while ago, when I was rather more naive, I did contribute to a couple of blog articles on sex work and both times found that what I wrote was massively edited so that it fit in with the writer's original idea, when it should have been the opposite. What happened to writing in-depth, fair articles? Either you get "I'm mega sex-positive, me!" types refusing to even discuss the ickier parts of prostitution, or you get the "I'm completely narrow-minded, me!" types refusing to think of the positive aspects. Both sides are disinterested in taking a realistic, non-reactionary view.
Jack, dude, seriously. You want to do something new? Write something interesting? Meaningful? Then look at the deeper issues, read the things we've written to you here, think a bit and write a LOT. Then probably hide under the table because people will be so shocked to see something insightful in the media that they might start throwing things at you.
If not, why not just read all the other articles out there about "omg sexy sex worker does sexy sex work blowjobs sex ladies sexy outfits money boobs sex [+ total lack of analysis of any wider issues]" and do a bit of copy'n'paste to cobble together your own totally unoriginal effort? Don't come here pestering us when you've no intention of listening to us.
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I totally agree emily!when its the truth its just not juicy enough!there always has to be some huge reason..
well heres a reason:there is usually no interview,or qualifications on paper needed to start escorting(if independent)if there were high executive jobs,with no interview or qualifications needed with OK pay,then people would do that also DUH!
So this man really, already knows the ansew to his own question..
So you dont need anyones help "DO YOU?"A JOB IS A JOB!!!
:FF
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This has all made me laugh so much how this thread has developed. Do you not realise ladies, we have disappointed Jack! We are not telling him what he wanted to hear!!
It's only ok to be an escort if it's for a 'higher goal' such as getting a degree, or only understandable and looked upon kindly if you were forced into it somehow.
I think you thought Jack that this was a very simple and easy article you were going to be writing - the topic is far more detailed and complex than you've given it credit for, isn't it.
I wonder what Jack's view of sex workers is - he seems to have withdrawn when this thread hasn't gone in the way he wanted!
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It does make me wonder......if you were just going to stick with your preconceptions and not take any note of our considered responses, and precisely because our responses didnt fit in with these preconceptions, ignore them, why bother asking us in the first place?
If you want to do something different you won't do it by ignoring the reality. You can go anywhere online and find what you want, but that will just be the same tired old unoriginal rubbish churned out by most of the media.
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You lot have most certainly not disappointed me. In fact I'm really impressed by the quality of responses and ideas this thread has generated.
As much as I'd like to write a groundbreaking investigative piece about the state of sex work in the UK today, I am, alas, bound by editorial constraints. I've got a boss too and I knew what I looking (hoping) to find from the off. Going by some of the comments on this thread, there are many people out there who do work to fund their studies and future careers and yes, I still would like to speak with them (if they have any interest in speaking with me). That's not to say that I don't find some of your other ideas really interesting and inspiring. And I know there are lots of other approaches I could take - I'm not ignoring them. But I'm not currently in a position where I can ditch my original intention (which is still a viable story). And sadly, yes, the juice-factor does play its part. Hey, it's the media!
As for my view of sex workers, I take people as I find them. Like I said, there's as many reasons for getting into sex work as their is to get into publishing, policing or cleaning. I'm lucky in that my job affords me the luxury of getting to ask really nosy questions to people from all walks of life and backgrounds (like your job does) so I like to think I'm pretty open and non-judgemental. I don't have a prostitute stereotype that I am aware of and I sincerely hope my ideas about your industry aren't massively wide of the mark. Please be aware though, I have only ever asked or posed questions, I have never made an assertion about a job which clearly I have no first-hand experience of.
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Thank you Jack. I haven't posted on this thread because your brief doesn't apply to me but since that hasn't stopped anybody else, can I ask whether it had occurred to any of the members posting that at least some (and probably most) of the media enquiries in this section are posted by people who have been handed them by somebody else who is not here in order that they earn their next pay packet?
No doubt they are then sent off and told to get on and write an article/make a programme about Prossie Stereotype X by Sunday week, and get as much salacious/headline grabbing stuff in as possible etc etc - what on earth is supposed to be achieved by trying to tell them what they should be doing when they have no more control over what their employers ask them to do than anybody else in civvy street? We're the ones who are self employed and answerable to no one, and not everybody has that luxury. If they're not going to ask here, where should they ask? Do we want them ringing us up and mithering us in person? Having had the odd spate of this after I've had occasional things published in the past, I know I don't.
I'm as guilty of it as anybody else to some extent in the past at least, but I'm getting increasingly sick of every single thread that's ever posted in this section turning into the same old identikit drum-banging rant about how misunderstood we all are - I can practically recite it verbatim. I appreciate that we have a regular influx of new members for whom it is all new and interesting, but the fact is that there are ladies posting here who are working as prostitutes as a means to a definite end and probably a good few more reading - why shouldn't they have the chance to talk about their success and ambitions if they want to? I can't see any of them wanting to post in the thread now, but maybe they will get in touch (and I do hope Jack's employers are familiar with our hourly rates and the budget can stand it - our time doesn't come cheap after all). On every other section of this forum we ask members to ignore threads that annoy them or they have no interest in, and this one should be no different, although I should say that I certainly am not disagreeing with what has been said - far from it.
Jack, provided you don't expect anybody to spend their time speaking to you for free, hopefully you'll have a bit more luck via email. I don't have any higher hopes for whatever it is you're putting together than the rest of the dreck we see every day, particularly once the editors get their hands on it and render anything even remotely sensible or realistic into a shadow of it's former self, but your patience and courtesy at least is much appreciated. I will look forward to your piece and it's companions where you talk to people who are cleaning offices, doing bar work or driving taxis in order to save up money for some future endeavour, because naturally they be will following shortly afterwards.
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Yes a valid point Amy. And its true to say Jack has been very polite, unlike some in the past. I think the problem is exactly this, that we are so often presented with those wishing to perpetuate the media myth of prostitution that perhaps we don't take into account enough when a reasonable person presents with a certain brief.
That being said I certainly don't think I ranted or was otherwise unreasonable. I merely answered a question of Jacks with the belief I was being helpful. I think disagreement has to occur sometimes, this is a particularly sensitive area for a lot of people after all.
And I must admit to being skeptical that any time given would be paid!
Thank you very much!
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And thank you too Mellow - I don't think anybody was majorly ranting, to be fair - I've just seen it all so many times before I'm getting fed up of reading it, but that's neither here nor there.
My concern is that I don't want anybody who might like to talk anonymously about how they're going to learn to make pots or start their own engineering firm, or open a B&B, or get a PHD in contemporary Tuareg to feel like they daren't say so because everybody will think they're letting the side down by pandering to the evil journos. And I do know ladies who have big plans, their stories are interesting and I don't think any demonstration of how ingenious, resourceful and determined some of us can be given the opportunity does any harm.
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On every other section of this forum we ask members to ignore threads that annoy them or they have no interest in...
You could maybe do the same here? ;)
If we don't tell the journos who approach us that there is a more interesting story out there than just repeating prossie stereotypes, who are we going to tell? How is anything ever going to change? Is someone going to make a quick call to Murdoch and announce that us prossies are bored of being asked the same old questions repeatedly?
(I've been using escorting to pay for my education and to support me while I attempt to launch a freelance career, for the record, but Jack still ain't interested in hearing what I tell him and it's not my fault if his boss has told him to write something boring and silly. In fact, Jack's probably had more excitement here with all the grumbling and ranting than he ever has when going out to research his other articles which are probably about people seeing Jesus' face on their toast ;D or z-list celebs doing tedious things, if it's that sorta rag! And I'm not disparaging his work - but if he's doing this particular article and has been instructed to stick to the most boring of tropes then, well, you know.)
I'm pretty sure anyone who feels like chatting to a journalist is going to have emailed or PMed him already, though; a handful of in-thread ranters is hardly going to deter them. And anyway, I think this thread has been an interesting discussion and Jack's been able to remain civil because no one's been having hysterics or flinging poop, so nobody's had to get un-civil.
The overally conclusion re. Jack having to do what his boss tells him is pretty anti-climactic, though. *wanders off, changes world elsewhere*
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its said that these discussions,have been wrote about over and over again..so why they not take note and listen..its not us who should change record..Its them thats the point..
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its said that these discussions,have been wrote about over and over again..so why they not take note and listen..its not us who should change record..Its them thats the point..
Because it isn't the people posting here who commission the bloody stories, as I was (unsuccessfully) trying to point out. Still, if everybody's enjoying themselves, by all means do get on with it - if we're going to maintain a 'flame the outsider' section we might as well give the spammers a day off now and again.
If we're not interested in the questions asked and we don't feel we have anything to contribute which is useful or relevant to the thread topic though, it is up to us to ignore it and let it gently sink without a trace without us having to have yet another thread about how rubbish the media is. Well, duh.
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sorry :-X
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sorry :-X
Sadie, you don't have to apologise :).
All I was basically saying was that if somebody posts a question here we can either answer it if it's relevant to us and we want to, or we can ignore it if it isn't and we don't. What I'm heartily sick of is the constant jumping on of the person who asked it for things which are nothing to do with that question.
At risk of going even further off topic, if it wasn't for the slack jawed, scabrous bottom feeders who lap this shite up, the media would have turned it's attentions elsewhere years ago. Laying all the blame at the door of the folk who are making a living by flogging it is like blaming Cadbury's because people have bad teeth.
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I know everyone did kind of jump on the poor guy!i think people just get really caught up in the subject..
I have found it really intresting,I am new to any kind of forum like this..so probably found it fresh critism.
Iwould like you,probably be having a totally different view..if it become monotomas..
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In my other ('real life') job, I was asked if I was interested in being interviewed for a rag mag about my weight (I'm a BIG GAL). So I said yes, it was a paid piece, they were offering almost ?1,000 for a double page spread and photo shoot, GAWD YES I jumped at it...!!!
Then the journalist (or rather, his editor) moved the goalposts. They wanted a twist on the story, a different angle rather than "fat bird gets on with her life". They asked me if I would be happy with making the the story saying I was a fat pin-up girl, or a kissagram, or roly-poly stripper.....!!!
I turned it all down. I can lie/act/elaborate, but this was too far, I wasn't prepared to feed the hand that bites us...
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I have to agree with Amy on this one. Most reporters are told what story to go after. They are never going to write about the real mundane lives many of us have as we are far from headline grabbing. At the moment there is a lot fo stories going around about students 'having' to turn to sex work to fund their studies so this is what people are going to write about as it is newsworthy.
Students forced into sex work by course fee hikes, makes a far better story than Married mum chooses sex work to buy luxuries.
Most of us will never be headline news so why flame someone for just doing their job.
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I for one wasn't having a go at Jack, and I think most posters on the thread were not. And I totally agree with Emily on this; she says it far better than I could.
If we don't tell the journos who approach us that there is a more interesting story out there than just repeating prossie stereotypes, who are we going to tell? How is anything ever going to change? Is someone going to make a quick call to Murdoch and announce that us prossies are bored of being asked the same old questions repeatedly?
(I've been using escorting to pay for my education and to support me while I attempt to launch a freelance career, for the record, but Jack still ain't interested in hearing what I tell him and it's not my fault if his boss has told him to write something boring and silly. In fact, Jack's probably had more excitement here with all the grumbling and ranting than he ever has when going out to research his other articles which are probably about people seeing Jesus' face on their toast ;D or z-list celebs doing tedious things, if it's that sorta rag! And I'm not disparaging his work - but if he's doing this particular article and has been instructed to stick to the most boring of tropes then, well, you know.)
Sorry to move it away from the topic; but I do think that is why so many women have posted here. Its a chicken and egg situation - if no journalist is brave enough to move away from the strereotype nothing will change.
(Not a dig at you Jack; just a general obsservation)
Now I'd best leave the thread to its own devices before I start repeating myself!
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Hi, once again many thanks for all the opinions and advice. If only everyone I contacted was as opinionated and forthright (in the best possible way) as you lot. And I have been doing this for too long to be put off or offended by cirticism and rebuttal (not that anything that has been said is overly-hostile).
What I would love to add, though, is that although some of you have offered me direction and insights into what might make a better article, none of the recomendations seem to have come with a real willingness to participate (which is fine). But I WOULD gladly take you up on the offer, if the story is interesting enough - editor's cloying demands aside. However, it seems that although happy to put me straight, fewer are happy to actually speak (which again is fine, but not my fault for not communicating it to the world).
"If we don't tell the journos who approach us that there is a more interesting story out there than just repeating prossie stereotypes, who are we going to tell? How is anything ever going to change?"
I don't want to perpetuate boring stereotypes, so give me something to work with!
"Students forced into sex work by course fee hikes, makes a far better story than Married mum chooses sex work to buy luxuries." - NOT TRUE!
I would LOVE to speak to someone who is willing to talk to me about this lifetstyle choice and why it works for them. And I guarantee it would be a great article.
And after reading some other threads, I would like to finally lay it on the table about payment. A reporter would generally not pay you your hourly rate for an interview, if ever. In the same way a solicitor or waitress wouldn't be paid by the hour when they are interviewed by the press. The BBC certainly doesn't have money to pay for interviews. They rely on people speaking because they want to. For my purposes I would pay on publication, and the amount would depend on the story. ?5,000 is not an unreasonable amount - but you'd have to be sitting on a pretty amazing story!
(I'm pretty thrilling at the amount of responses this thread has - I never expected it for a minute)
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And after reading some other threads, I would like to finally lay it on the table about payment. A reporter would generally not pay you your hourly rate for an interview, if ever. In the same way a solicitor or waitress wouldn't be paid by the hour when they are interviewed by the press. The BBC certainly doesn't have money to pay for interviews. They rely on people speaking because they want to. For my purposes I would pay on publication, and the amount would depend on the story. ?5,000 is not an unreasonable amount - but you'd have to be sitting on a pretty amazing story!
The thing is, does a solicitor or waitress risk having their kids or the opportunity to work in certain fields in the future taken away if they talk openly about their work? You must see why we prossies do not want to come forward to risk our futures just to titillate readers while they read our article over their toast'n'eggs in the morning? Especially not for zero financial reward! Sure, some people do chase fame at any cost but the vast majority of us have two eyes and a brain so we see the scorn that's poured onto women who dare to speak openly about sex work, and the devastation that can occur in their lives post-'fame'. Even the bravest of activists have to be really careful about who they speak to. And let's not even begin to think of the barrage of hatred that poor girl who went on x-factor (or something?) got; she's still trying to work but it must be a bloody nightmare. Not that she didn't bring it on herself, but still! Any fleeting fancies I might've had of being a famous artist/politician/campaigner-for-things-I-care-about while casually being open about my sex work past became even more squished.
Sorry - I'm not tempering my words with a thousand smiley faces here so they probably sound much more angry/ranty than I actually intend. But I'm just stating the facts here. From what I've heard (I've had dozens of clients who work in TV/media, plus of course all prossies are contacted by journalists regularly), it's really hard to put a whole article - let alone TV show - together about prostitution because the men and women involved won't come forwards to talk about it. So I understand your possible frustration there, Jack. But you must understand why we don't want to take a huge personal risk for no reward! I suppose it's a bit of an impossible circle, really, but you could try contacting sex work activists directly if you want a higher likelihood of getting quotable responses.
I just put "sex work activism london" into Google and saw mentions of x:talk and Sex Worker Open University, amongst plenty of other possibly-useful stuff. You've probably already been in touch with them but, if not, you'll have a much better chance with men and women who've decided to already be open about doing sex work than with those of us who usually spend time here for the specific reason that we do not feel personally able to be or comfortable with being public about our work. Again, women who have children or who want to do nursing or midwifery or certain other professions are extremely vulnerable when it comes to revealing their work, even though they are also much more likely to be unable to do long enough hours (due to child-raising and/or training commitments) in any other job to earn enough to support themselves and potentially also their families, which is just a very unfair situation. Probably another good focus for an article but you'd definitely have to offer some major compensation and total anonymity to any women who might be prepared to take a huge risk by talking to you.
(I'm pretty thrilling at the amount of responses this thread has - I never expected it for a minute)
See, I thought you'd be enjoying it. ;D I did get the impression you weren't going to scream and/or cry in surprise even when being argued with by ladies who are supposed to be super-obliging! Honestly, you should see some of the people we get around here thinking we're all going to go "yes sir" when they - a random person on the internet - make a bunch of demands. *goes off into a long tangental rant*
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I plan to save up enough money to take over the world ::)
When I first started in the industry I was indeed in full time education but actually decided to pursue a career in the sex trade. Whilst a lot of Uni students work to support themselves I don't think it has a lot of relevance.
Many women may do this because they enjoy it. Maybe they are doing it because they have a mortgage or possibly they have debt to pay off.
I think there's a lot more women that go into this industry Before they go into/back to education.
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Hi improbablecats,
Yes, that would be interesting. I've often heard/ read equal rights campaigners saying there's little chance a woman would go into prostitution of their own volition and that there must always be a certain amount of coercion involved. I always wondered if this was the case. Now that some of the stigma around sex work is beginning to wane I think a more complex picture of those industries and its workers is beginning to emerge. No doubt there are as many reasons for entering into it as there are people doing it. However, like in any industry there will be certain broad truths and common experiences that form a general experience. I'm not looking to generalise or categorise with my feature, however, I know the area which interests me and hope to find someone who can shed more light on it.
What about escorts who are doing it because there is no other employment available that doesnt take away your whole life time for a minimal amount?
I plan on studying but in reality I started at age 18 because escorting and webcamming is the most financially viable career for me, in a no-job zone in the NW as a young woman, in order to enjoy my youth and save money to travel etc.
On the other hand, I'm well interested in talking to the press and even being on telly, my whole family knows about my profession and I have nothing to hide :o ;D
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Folks, this thread has been dead for nearly three months. I would strongly suggest addressing any further responses directly to the OP, since I doubt very much he's going to see them now.
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I doubt that you will get anyone who is willing to publicly admit that they became escorts to pay for school because they would not be able to find employment after graduation when they try to purse the career they went to school for. My experience around getting into to escorting was to pay for school. I did not qualify for student loans and had no other way to pay (my parents refused to help), so I needed to find something that would make me enough money to cover tuition. The only thing that paid enough was escorting. I won an appeal part-way through school and was granted student loans at which point I quit escorting. I only worked for a bit over a year. I am now about to begin a Masters in social work with the assistance of student loans. Although I would love to say that I went into escorting because I wanted to, this is not the case for everyone. Escorting for me was not fun, and it has left me with a lot of struggles and guilt. Everyone has a different experience I guess. Unfortunately, I am a bit like the stereotypical escort that these women are talking about; but many of the women who I worked with were not and made the decision to work as escorts and were very happy, were not drug addicts, and were not forced into working. I hope this helps.
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Emz, did you read the post directly above yours?
I give up. Locked.