See also the main SAAFE.info site for more Support And Advice For Escorts

Author Topic: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour  (Read 21213 times)

SCOT-PEP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Sex Worker Rights are Human Rights
    • SCOT-PEP
Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« on: 14 March 2012, 12:57:34 am »
Sex workers have been arrested in Aberdeen while on tour; evidence suggests that Grampian police were monitoring advertising websites to track their movements. Charges have been brought under Section 11 of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995, namely Trading in Prostitution and Brothel Keeping.

There is no suggestion of entrapment (ie police officers posing as clients), so it looks like the web adverts were the main source of intelligence used to justify the arrests.

We'll keep you posted as we find out more; in the meantime we suggest that any sex workers working in, or touring to, Aberdeen, keep any potentially incriminating information (such as more than one worker on the premises) off of publicly-viewable sites.

For more information on the legal situation in Scotland, see the Toolkit section on the Law here:

http://www.scot-pep.org.uk/sex-workers-toolkit/law

I also noticed there was a post in January, mentioning calling SCOT-PEP for legal advice, if we still answered our phones, and the answer is yes, we do, although it has been a rocky couple of years. There is also a mountain of information and advice on our new website, so please stop by and have a browse.
PROMOTING HEALTH & DIGNITY,
FIGHTING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE
AND INCLUSION

strawberry

  • Guest
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #1 on: 14 March 2012, 07:04:43 am »
I know this isn't a discussion thread but are these girls travelling and working together, or offering duos when touring?or are they completely independent, travelling alone and solo?If the former it might be useful to know since some girls do buddy up and travel together, and often there are touring profiles announcing duos.

SCOT-PEP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Sex Worker Rights are Human Rights
    • SCOT-PEP
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #2 on: 15 March 2012, 10:09:27 pm »
They were travelling and staying together, working in shifts - only one woman working at a time - but they were both staying in the flat. This, according to Grampian police, a brothel makes.
PROMOTING HEALTH & DIGNITY,
FIGHTING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE
AND INCLUSION

strawberry

  • Guest
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #3 on: 15 March 2012, 10:28:20 pm »
They were travelling and staying together, working in shifts - only one woman working at a time - but they were both staying in the flat. This, according to Grampian police, a brothel makes.

I was under the impression that in English law a brothel is defined as a place where more than one woman offers sex, and that this doesn't have to be on the same day - can be on different days. So if scottish law contains a similar definition then that definition has been fulfilled, and it's something for touring girls to be aware of.

Michelle8

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #4 on: 16 March 2012, 12:32:29 pm »
That is right a brothel is not allowed in Scotland, one girl per address only. But to be honest I work in Aberdeen. The police office I meet was nice and polite.   The Grampian police are doing the job.
But I am not breaking any low? I am independent work from my own property and alone.
The Grampian police don?t want brothels, don?t want illegal working girls, don?t want girl paying money for pimps, and they also not stupid they know 50% of foreign girls using false documents. And everybody known?s many working girls pay for it and use it to rent properties and put other girls to work from. Be a pimp and take money from any working girl in any contry in the world is ILLEGAL.
If you stay in a hotel or self catering they won't bother you except if the hotel or self catering management calls them. That case they will ask you to leave in a polite away. But you must travel alone, work alone and have European passport.

Let's be honest is too many illegal immigrants already on this country.

Take care!

Michelle.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 12:41:25 pm by Michelle8 »

amy

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,513
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #5 on: 16 March 2012, 12:43:06 pm »
Michelle, the whole point is that the Grampian police can, have and will continue to 'bother' women working from short stay accommodation - they have plenty of form dating back over the last couple of years and ladies have been turned away from their booked venues upon turning up in some instances without even being permitted to check in. There are threads on this forum and others documenting this, as well as reliable witnesses - to say this will not happen is just not true.

As for your 50% figure, please substantiate this otherwise I will remove it. This is not a place to blithely speculate about what you have no way of knowing for certain, and any further remarks about migrant workers, illegal or otherwise will also be removed.

If this topic is going to continue as a discussion rather than a warning thread it will be moved to Touring Tips - anyone wanting to update with actual information about incidents they have experienced or been party to, please do so.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 12:45:47 pm by amy »

Michelle8

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #6 on: 16 March 2012, 12:57:26 pm »
Amy,

If you don't give the right advice and information about why these girls are raided and deported .girls will get in trouble. If they are illegal they will be deported they need to know that is the risk of work in a foreign country. Also they are braking the law if they work in groups or work at the same address  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothel , if they are illegal immigrants or  using fake documents ( It's called fraud) .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration
It's nothing to fear if you are doing things right. I use my self (holiday accommodation and hotels around Scotland and worldwide, never had a problem. I become resident in Aberdeen and never had a problem with the law. I was believing the site should advise and tell people the true and reality about the working girls world, right??

As I am a a escort myself ,I think I have a point. that away I am helping girls to understand the risk.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 10:51:58 pm by Michelle8 »

LauraLee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #7 on: 16 March 2012, 03:37:36 pm »
Amy,

If you don't give the right advice and information about why these girls are raided and deported .girls will get in trouble. If they are illegal they will be deported they need to know that is the risk of work in a foreign country. Also they are braking the low if they are working in groups, if they using false documents.
It's nothing to fear if you are doing things right. I use my self (holiday accommodation and hotels around Scotland and worldwide, never had a problem. I become resident in Aberdeen and never had a problem with the law. I was believing the site should advise and tell people the true and reality about the working girls world, right??

As I am a a escort myself ,I think I have a point. that away I am helping girls to understand the risk.

Of course the site should advise working girls correctly which is why Amy quite rightly pointed out that Grampian ARE harassing single women working within the law in the area. They are calling to the working premises of known independent sex workers and effectively having them turfed out on the street under the pretence of a "welfare visit". THAT is fact.

The information is contained in this leaflet, issued by Quay services.

Michelle8

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #8 on: 16 March 2012, 07:11:34 pm »
If you say so! It?s never been my experience in any case. And I see many police officers over the years! They check my ID, ask if I am independent and leave.
Lucky me I guess.
To be honest I really don?t care!
Good luck for you  all.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 07:15:51 pm by Michelle8 »

SCOT-PEP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Sex Worker Rights are Human Rights
    • SCOT-PEP
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #9 on: 16 March 2012, 10:17:14 pm »
Actually, unless they know something I don't know (which is entirely possible), the Quay Services leaflet is incorrect. There is no definition of "brothel" in Scottish law. The closest thing there is to any recent legal opinion on this is Sheriff Muirhead 's 2008 statement that ?In order to constitute a brothel it is necessary to have more than one prostitute operating at any one time.? This hasn't been tested, so if these prosecutions go forward it's going to be interesting.
PROMOTING HEALTH & DIGNITY,
FIGHTING FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE
AND INCLUSION

TastyBBW

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I LOVE MY JOB!
    • adultwork
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #10 on: 16 March 2012, 10:31:25 pm »
I have been reading this blog and some of the reply and honestly I'm baffled by some of the comments and warnings, NO OFFENCE to the girls that have been arrested or deported over the past few weeks/months but KARMA IS A BITCH RIGHT?

I feel like all sex works who have been arrested or stopped by the police feels like it is a personal vendetta against their "career choice" but lets be honest you choose your job, and the POLICE ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB!!! Because girls are arrested by  the police when they break "ESCORT LAW" suddenly this is a INJUSTICE, but if they was arrested while robbing a bank that would be acceptable? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??? either way the law has been broken, and the police is in their right to do what have to be done.

We expect the police to protect us, especially in the industry we are in because it is more dangerous than most, but if they have lost faith, respect and truest in our credibility they can we truly expect them to protect us? Even when some of the "sex workers" are trying to crucify them for a job  "WELL DONE" (if i may say so my self).

I been in the business long enough to know the DO's and DON'Ts, if your not sure, research it and learn it, that's what i did, you don't go into a job with out knowing what is expected of you and what your role and responsibilities are.

If you break the law then i support the police 110% with what they are doing, if you are illegal or working from the same property as another girl, then being arrested or deported serves you right.

I been working in Aberdeen and touring for a while, and my experience with the police has been nothing but pleasant, well mannered and good characters, because i stick to the book, i work alone and my passport is always in date.

So moral of the story is, STOP BREAKING THE LAW, AND THE POLICE WILL STOP "BOTHERING" YOU!!
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 10:47:22 pm by TastyBBW »
TastyBBW

amy

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,513
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #11 on: 16 March 2012, 10:39:57 pm »
Perhaps you could explain for us all how the women working independently, indoors and alone who have been harassed for no reason other than that they are going about their legal business are breaking the law? Or do you think that people who have committed no offence should be fair game to be photographed by the police and have their personal details taken for no reason, and if so does this apply to everybody or just prostitutes? Because if every woman checking into any short stay accommodation is to be questioned on the basis that she might be a prostitute, I can see that getting interesting.

And without the ridiculous self-important ranting tone, if you don't mind.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2012, 10:41:55 pm by amy »

TastyBBW

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I LOVE MY JOB!
    • adultwork
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #12 on: 16 March 2012, 11:11:22 pm »
The explanation is simple, is called PROBABLE CAUSE: probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered.

If the police believes that they might have a reason or a potential arrest they may search, question and take evidence weather is pictures of personal belongings, this is not HARASSMENT, is their job and this applies to everyone, from killers, rapist and "escorts" (I hate the word prostitutes).

And the hotel situation, no i don't believe that everyone should me questioned based on the possibility of being a "sex worker" that would get interesting, but it does bring us back to "probable cause" if they think a person is one, they may question and take evidence as needed.

As long as we co-operate they their should be no need to use the word HARASSMENT, is a simple routine check. When you work in a restaurant the health and safety department has the right to shut you down and search the premisses for no reason, is simple routine, same goes for hospitals and hotels. IS NOT PERSONAL.
TastyBBW

Hot Pepper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #13 on: 16 March 2012, 11:19:30 pm »
NOT CONVINCED TASTYBBW. HEARD THE  THE SAME ABOUT STOP AND SEARCH FACT IT WAS USED TO HARASS CERTAIN STEREOTYPES ONLY .
And Still I Rise, Maya Angelou a real inspiration x

amy

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,513
Re: Aberdeen - Grampian Police & Escorts on tour
« Reply #14 on: 16 March 2012, 11:22:52 pm »
The original excuse claim was that the police are conducting this approach on the basis of safety; plumbers, health visitors and meter readers are some other people who work alone, and are often in vulnerable situations where they are indoors with strangers. Do you think the police should visit their places of business, photograph them and place their personal details on a police computer on the off chance that at some indeterminate point in the future, something 'might' happen to them?

A lone woman advertising that she is working indoors as a prostitute is not sufficient grounds to suspect that criminal activity is taking place, and moreover when it is seen that this is the case, the police have no reason whatsoever to do anything other than leave her alone - why should they then photograph her? And what does any of this have to do with punters, who are also included should they be unlucky enough to be present - bearing in mind there is NO offence in visiting either a lone prostitute or a brothel, how do you justify this gross invasion of their privacy? Whether or not the officers involved are pleasant and polite (as they should always be anyway) is completely irrelevant.

Collecting information on law abiding people is not a function of the police - you may think it's OK, but an awful lot of people with at least a passing concern about our basic civil rights would disagree with you. Bearing in mind the ongoing attempts to outlaw prostitution in Scotland, I'm amazed that anybody working there would want their legal name and personal information on record so it can come back to haunt them later. Once on a police computer, that information isn't going anywhere and you can forget about any future job which includes a CRB check for example; being tagged as a 'known prostitute' might not matter to you, but it could seriously fuck things up for other people.

If you don't care that's fine and it's entirely up to you, but don't complain because plenty of other people find this sort of outrageous abuse of their civil liberties unacceptable. Whether GP are well intentioned or not, they're way off the mark here - if they want to close down brothels then their resources would be far better concentrated on doing so, not poring over the AW tour board looking for people to pester.