SAAFE forum
General Category => Blather and Babble => Topic started by: LucyA on 21 April 2019, 09:28:30 pm
-
I often worked with mature ladies who had some great tales of pre internet days. Has the type of clientele changed? Is there more crime directed at us girls now or have we always had robbings and weirdo fantasists? Was there a booming trade even though it seemed a lot more taboo back then? Could women really charge £200 for anal by itself? How did OWO become a thing since everything was usually covered? Was band of gold series quite a realistic representation of what it was really like? Any one got any good books that detail the history of our line of work? Or great personal stories from the 1970's, 1980's or even before?
-
OOOHH I like this thread and am very interested.
I have Mayfairs from the 1970s onwards
They started off with pussy covered by drapes then not covered then spread eagled. Interesting to see the difference in them as time went by.
In ireland condoms were banned for many years not sure when there became available so I think BB must have been usual as they was no choice and from what older clients tell BB was the only thing
I have only been escorting 4 years so very interested
-
Yeah I know some young thing is going to ask what Mayfairs are and make me feel ancient ;D
-
God, this is going to make me feel old lol. I started in 2000 which is slightly outside your period but might still be interesting. Back then we used cards in telephone boxes and carefully worded ads in newspapers. 'Stress relief' was a phrase we often used. Massage, french lessons, greek (meaning anal) etc.
In terms of the clients, they didn't have those god awful review sites yet. Internet porn was in its infancy so their expectations were more realistic. OW was standard and they were much more 'grateful' if that's the right word. We didn't have our photos online so there was much less risk of being outed.
On the negative side, Ugly Mugs was literally a printed leaflet with some sketchy drawings of thr suspects. Most clients called from a phone box so there was no way of saving their numbers and passing them on to warn others.
If I think of other differences I'll post again. Interesting thread!
-
Yeah I know some young thing is going to ask what Mayfairs are and make me feel ancient ;D
What are Mayfairs? ;D
-
Mayfair is a photographic magazine I believe .
This is a very interesting thread thanks x
-
Mayfair is a photographic magazine I believe .
This is a very interesting thread thanks x
Also a cigarette brand.
-
Mayfair is a photographic magazine I believe .
Yes I believe it was started in the 60s as the Uk's answer to the likes of Playboy and Penthouse.
-
What are Mayfairs? ;D
boot up the bum for you my Dear ;D
Mayfair magazine same as penthouse
Men read them for the motoring articles they just happened to also have naked ladies photographs and very saucy stories about plumbers and how they got paid :D
-
Oh god, yes Mayfair magazines! When hairy bushes were more common as well
-
I love Band of Gold watched the whole thing again not long ago... remember watching that when I was a kid ;D :o Not sure it's really for kids ha. Anyway, I think ads in papers were defo a big thing in the past and now everything is online there is so much porn and seems to be loads of girls but I think overall it must be safer. We do have Ugly Mug alerts and we can use the AW booking system or take deposits. I wouldn't feel safe without all that. I do hear stories of girls making way more money before online porn but it's prob not all true I'm sure some did and some didn't like now.
-
A friend of mine started working in the 1970s and she said everyone did BB because the pill was available and AIDS hadn’t yet come out, this might well be why so many men of a certain age ask for it due to it being the norm back then, she also said that outcall escorts were £150 an hour back then too, that’s crazy to me because I charge that now and so do many other girls, crazy to think that the price hasn’t improved for over 40 years, and the fact that they haggle this price now, I think back then it was really only rich people that must have gotten escorts to their hotel or house.
-
A friend of mine started working in the 1970s and she said everyone did BB because the pill was available and AIDS hadn’t yet come out, this might well be why so many men of a certain age ask for it due to it being the norm back then, she also said that outcall escorts were £150 an hour back then too, that’s crazy to me because I charge that now and so do many other girls, crazy to think that the price hasn’t improved for over 40 years, and the fact that they haggle this price now, I think back then it was really only rich people that must have gotten escorts to their hotel or house.
Well realistically the price has dropped, if you look at inflation.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
What you bought for £150 in the mid 70s would cost about £1200 now.
-
I've worked in the industry for a long time and I remember regularly having conversations with women who started in the 80s and 90s back then, talking about all the changes that came with new technology and other things. Positive side to 'the halcyon days' was I do think prices have overall not kept up with inflation...I was a newbie to the industry without any financial commitments and was very popular for a period with the first place I worked, and binned a lot of money on designer rubbish, and I remember an older woman in her 40s saying "Oh you remind me of all the designer whores of the 80s...good days". Its always stuck with me. I would have pinned that down to one women's perception but I heard it very commonly, 'the business is not what it was', financially speaking. But also, house prices were a lot lower back then and the cost of living generally was too, so saving to buy a house or just save for retirement was easier.
Mind you, as I say, lots of these women started late 80s and 90s so post the AIDS crisis and people were hyper vigilant about condom use. When I started, all the brothels and agencies I worked at had a culture were even OWO was still very stigmatised. Which was understandable given the collective memory, but it could be harsh for someone if they were 'rumour milled' as doing it without. But then that febrile shit still happens only now its 'she does penetration without' if she's popular etc There was a bigger culture I remember of feeling that someone who did more services or charged less for 'extras' was undercutting and letting the side down. But thats probably brothels per se.
I started just as the transition to internet advertising was becoming the norm. At first it was positive as less dependency on brothels and agents and the capricious newspaper ads if you were indie, so was obviously a good thing, but when AW et al went on the ascendancy, that meant more search engine ranking competition for websites, so it was harder to not rely on directories. It was easier to not list the services you offered, either, and therefore there were no 'promises' but as AW (and as a corollary the punting sites) started to get more popular I noticed clients got more demanding, 'you advertised you do this so now you must', somehow forgetting sexual coercion is a more serious offence than 'false advertising', and that no means no money or no money (or at least I hope I'm right on that front). And yes you more or less have to expose yourself more so discretion and compartmentalization is so much harder. But then there are sites like these and client eye as well as the increased independence and ease with which even more vulnerable sex workers can organise meets off the street. I'm tempted to think the new technologies have been good and bad in more or less equal measure.
-
I'm tempted to think the new technologies have been good and bad in more or less equal measure.
You nailed it there.
-
From what I've heard off several friends that were prostitutes pre 90's, the clients seemed to be a lot more appreciative of what they were getting for their money. These days I find that although some are lovely and respectful, a LOT are totally disrespectful of us and I feel the hate via the phone on a daily basis :(
-
From what I've heard off several friends that were prostitutes pre 90's, the clients seemed to be a lot more appreciative of what they were getting for their money. These days I find that although some are lovely and respectful, a LOT are totally disrespectful of us and I feel the hate via the phone on a daily basis :(
The clients that seem to hate sex workers in general; is it because they hate that we are able to charge them for sex, and they loathe to have to pay for something that’s so natural for us humans to indulge in? or do they hate us because they think we’ve no respect for ourselves in charging for sex? or do you’s think they just hate all women in general? An old manager of mine said they hate us because they hate the fact that they have to pay for sex, this one makes more sense to me.
My friend, whose worked since 1977, said that all the girls did BB back then but I’m not sure I believe her...
-
My friend, whose worked since 1977, said that all the girls did BB back then but I’m not sure I believe her...
I would believe it. I've been having sex since the late 80s and up til I started sex work I rarely used a condom.
I was on the contraceptive pill and thought that the only risk. I got genital warts in my late teens and passed them to my partner (sorry dude.) I still didn't use condoms.
In the mid 90s I started using Femidoms as I had a problem with blood pressure so had to come off the pill and my partner at the time "couldn't get hard with condoms". Obviously now I would say "Gosh that's tough, I guess it will be oral only until you get over it" but back then I somehow thought it was my responsibility.
I used to work for Friday Ad in the 90s and dealt with a lot of hookers. They were fucking brilliant in terms of my commission. Most of them were so nice (there was one who was a bitch but I only had to deal with her once a month) it really changed my outlook on sex work.
I do think that modern technology has changed things for the worse in some ways, but I feel the benefits outweigh the risk. If we didn't have resources like SAAFE, we wouldn't be able to share info on dangerous clients so easily. Without SAAFE and NUM I would definitely have been assaulted, robbed or even killed by now.
-
I'd say up to 80/81 unprotected sex was quite common. 1965-80 was the 'golden age' of sex - the contraceptive pill was around, the clap could easily be treated with antibiotics.
Cue the arrival of HIV in the early 80s and everything changed. I was 14 in 1981 and the John Hurt 'You're going to DIE OF AIDS if you don't use a condom' TV ads scared the shit out of me and most other people born ~1960-72. I didn't have sex without a condom until my late 30s.
Then, for many people born after about 1973, the fear of HIV died down again and IMO significantly younger people are much more lax - even some promiscuous gay men: they don't even really see HIV as a big issue. I dated someone born in the 1990s and he looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested we use one.
I've definitely found that it's the under 25s and over 55s who are most cavalier about unsafe sex.
-
Kay ~
I just commented to you in another post lol, so I'm not stalking you hee hee.😆 Have mentioned this previously but I'm complete agreement with you; invariably the BB requests come from the over 55s ~ ALWAYS.😡
Oddly, I've yet to have a young one ask me. I joke they seem to born with a condom in their hand.
-
I believe sex work was more stigmatized 20 years ago (pre- internet) and ads filled the last page on the newspaper, so independent hookers were like a gold mine, they could charge and get away with whatever. One of the problems nowadays is that is less stigmatized and everybody and their nan has an ad on AW, so guys have a million options to choose from, the competition is fierrrrrrrce. Also: webcam has done a big diservice to escorting (sorry webcam girls, not your fault), as a lot of clients have resorted to online sex instead of "human interaction". Tinder and similar apps were people are getting laid for free left and right is another hit to the sex industry. In the old days a business savyy indie escort in London with small ad on the back of the paper and an agency would swim in gold, nowadays the same business savyy escort needs a website, has to be on 6 different directories, get new pictures every six months, be active on social media and tour her ass off to make half of that money. The fact that prostitution and porn laws seem to be tightening the noose on the trade more and more (nordic model, FOSTA etc...) is just making things harder for the good ol hooker. No wonder young girls are resorting to the sugardaddy.com business model, it's much less stigmatized and less troublesome.
-
Talking of HIV; there was a story in a newspaper the other day about a man who is 100 years old and has HIV and he was diagnosed with it back in the 80s/90s! did anybody see it?
Anyway back on topic, I think that girls would have made so much more cash back in the 90s than compared to now, too many girls have jumped on the escort bandwagon!
-
I believe sex work was more stigmatized 20 years ago (pre- internet) and ads filled the last page on the newspaper, so independent hookers were like a gold mine, they could charge and get away with whatever. One of the problems nowadays is that is less stigmatized and everybody and their nan has an ad on AW, so guys have a million options to choose from, the competition is fierrrrrrrce. Also: webcam has done a big diservice to escorting (sorry webcam girls, not your fault), as a lot of clients have resorted to online sex instead of "human interaction". Tinder and similar apps were people are getting laid for free left and right is another hit to the sex industry. In the old days a business savyy indie escort in London with small ad on the back of the paper and an agency would swim in gold, nowadays the same business savyy escort needs a website, has to be on 6 different directories, get new pictures every six months, be active on social media and tour her ass off to make half of that money. The fact that prostitution and porn laws seem to be tightening the noose on the trade more and more (nordic model, FOSTA etc...) is just making things harder for the good ol hooker. No wonder young girls are resorting to the sugardaddy.com business model, it's much less stigmatized and less troublesome.
I've wondered about this. Obviously I don't particularly want to be stigmatised for what I do (but I don't mind what people think of me *or* having to keep my work a secret, in any case) but I do think there is a potential downside to the narrative of acceptance. To some extent the high price we get compared to other occupations commonly available is because, like oil rig or abattoir work, its been historically understood as work the vast majority of women wouldn't want to do, for good reason. I know there are many variables to earning potential in this market, but if I had to choose between having a taboo occupation which I keep on the down low but pays hella well and a socially acceptable trade that pays less or pittance, I know which I'd pick. Hence why I'm a prostitute :)
-
I've wondered about this. Obviously I don't particularly want to be stigmatised for what I do (but I don't mind what people think of me *or* having to keep my work a secret, in any case) but I do think there is a potential downside to the narrative of acceptance. To some extent the high price we get compared to other occupations commonly available is because, like oil rig or abattoir work, its been historically understood as work the vast majority of women wouldn't want to do, for good reason. I know there are many variables to earning potential in this market, but if I had to choose between having a taboo occupation which I keep on the down low but pays hella well and a socially acceptable trade that pays less or pittance, I know which I'd pick. Hence why I'm a prostitute :)
100% agree with this "dichotomy" (not sure that's the right word), sex workers have been campaigning for rights all over in the last two decades, we've had an influx of "belle de jour" series, candid biographies of escorts who have turned into vey respectable writers etc.. reducing the stigma. Problem is the price you pay for de-stigmatization is quite high (financially speaking) and that's one of the reasons rates have gone down and demands have gone up (owo, kissing and whatnot).
-
Oh yea indeed, after Belle de Jour's success there did seem to be a huge influx in hooker memoirs/blogs/vlogs etc and I don't really enjoy the exposure they give the industry, the public scrutiny that comes with it.
Its also the way the prostitution 'subject matter' is often seen as a kind of public property in the way that other industries aren't, so everybody has a passionate opinion on the subject, often stemming from complete or partial ignorance - I've stopped telling people what I do not because I care what people think but precisely the opposite, because I'm tired of having to hear every Tom, Dick or Harriet's mini thesis on prostitution based on a Brooke Magnanti youtube interview or some sex work twitter feeds. This is the other downside of the technology and contemporary openness about prostitution: everyone is now an expert on the subject. Not many months back I was sat in a sauna listening to an extremely confident conversation between two undergraduates who were doing a whole module on sex work. They were talking as though sex workers are some kind of monolithic naturalised demographic that it was their ethical duty to 'understand'. I did some serious British tutting.
I dunno, maybe I'm moaning unfairly and people mean well etc but I find the invasive aspect of it worse than negative judgement because the latter is easier to avoid and ignore I suppose.
-
This is the other downside of the technology and contemporary openness about prostitution: everyone is now an expert on the subject.
With the advent of technology "everyone" has become an expert on any subject (not only prostitution), all of a sudden every tom, dick and Jane has a website, an instagram or a youtube channel and is giving advice on nutrition, fashion, politics, mindfulness, yoga or is a professional therapist treating anxiety with their only academic credentials being having cured their dog.
-
Sure, but prostitution gets a hugely disproportionate amount of attention from 'internet experts' given that its not actually that common a phenomenon all things considered. The porn obsession/debate makes more sense I guess because that effects more people as consumers at least.
-
I saw an article in the Daily Mail today: Swells Night Guide Through the Metropolis
The secret Victorian guide to London’s Ladies of the Night a 1841 booklet detailing the capitals brothels and sex workers sells for £4,000 at auction. I bet this would make a fascinating read.
-
The clients that seem to hate sex workers in general; is it because they hate that we are able to charge them for sex, and they loathe to have to pay for something that’s so natural for us humans to indulge in? or do they hate us because they think we’ve no respect for ourselves in charging for sex? or do you’s think they just hate all women in general? An old manager of mine said they hate us because they hate the fact that they have to pay for sex, this one makes more sense to me.
I think it's just the haters hate us for simply existing, much the same as any other type of discrimination, racism, sexism, homophobia etc it's just what some have been brought up to believe. No doubt *some* men think that it's outrageous that we get paid to do the exact things that they want. From the few times I've questioned some of the verbal abusers why they hate me they can't ever really come up with an answer other than "Well because you're a whore" and when I've said "and..." they can't really explain other than one 'gentleman' who said that I'm disgusting for 'doing anything for money', when I replied that no I offer services of my choice he had no reply other than to block me off his aw emails when he realised he wasn't winning the argument ;D and another, after screaming down the phone at me (when he took offence to my auto reply) His words "How dare you do that you're just a whore, you belong in paradise" ??? It's deeply held beliefs why we are often hated so much, yet often adored at the same time.
-
Well realistically the price has dropped, if you look at inflation.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
What you bought for £150 in the mid 70s would cost about £1200 now.
Exactly, there just weren't as many punters as there are today, I mean who could afford £1200 to book a 'high class' escort for an hour on an evening? Hardly any other than the super rich,,,that's probably how all the stories of judges etc paying to be spanked etc ;D it was only them fuckers that could afford it lol
-
Somebody I know used to visit massage parlours in the 80's, he says that when he asked how much service was, they often used to say "how much do you think I'm worth" :P Which made him feel awkward but he says it was usually around 40 pounds for up to 30 minutes. I wonder how much that was actually in those days, I'd imagine quite a lot!
-
The Bank of England's inflation calculator has it that £40 in 1985 would be about £120 today. My first British brothel I worked in was £50 for half hour, was in the mid 1990s when it opened and has gone up by the stellar price of £5 to £55 today, when inflation should have it at about £100.
Yes you can get more as an indie and thats what lots of us obviously have done with the rise of the internet, but few seem to charge more than £80 for 30 minutes from what I've seen, I think you'd have to be offering a lot of services and be very popular to justify trying to charge £100-£120 for 30 minutes and I always notice many that do, don't have a huge difference between their 30 min and their hour price , so they are clearly just trying to encourage people to book hours anyway.