SAAFE forum

General Category => Blather and Babble => Topic started by: saltysweet on 07 September 2019, 05:38:59 pm

Title: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: saltysweet on 07 September 2019, 05:38:59 pm
Don't know how 'real' this is, I see a legal and out, Australian SW had her bank account closed by National Australia Bank (NAB) because of high 'risks...of providing banking services to customers involved in certain industries or professions'. The same SW criticises Paypal for doing the same thing, but that's a well known breach of PP's T&C. Slow news day? or we aren't hearing an accurate account of the issue?
Title: Re: Australian bank close account or is it slow news day?
Post by: CelesteManchester on 07 September 2019, 06:26:28 pm
This happened to a girl over here, I read about it on Switter a few months back *thinking*...it was a debit card. They closed her account & she lost all her $$ too bc of "suspicious activity". The girls on there were raising funds for her bc she very unfortunately had all her eggs in that 1 basket *wince* & lost everything. I think I tossed $50 in the pot.

I've honestly lost count how many debit cards I have at this point, but I'm razor sharp about knowing what goes on what card, personally/professionally. I also use completely different brand cards by different companies ~ AmEx/Visa/whatever/ ~ for the personal & pro stuff. I was always careful, but have stepped up my game bc of this.
Title: Re: Bank close account or is it slow news day?
Post by: saltysweet on 08 September 2019, 06:48:19 pm
The bill, H.R.1865 passed in 2017 is apparently supposed to stop enabling traffickers and organised crime but seems to have been used on some indy SWs, stimulating banks to overreact and shut accounts. Celeste good on you donating! I had a nose about, is this  Bianca Baker who had her account frozen with $13 thou in it? She says it's the bank's 'morality clause' in their T&C.

I googled...apparently it can seem similar to a normal banking practice called, de-risking...eg targetting financial terrorism, money laundering and illegal immigrants.


'Morality clauses in contracts  isn't a new thing and common in 1950s Hollywood film industry...Charley 'party boy' Sheen and Ray Rice American Footballer and woman beater were sacked due to “conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty, or good morals.” Usually involves acts of “baseness, vileness or depravity.” Athletes Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong have lost endorsement deals due to breaking their morality clauses. I'm guessing someone at the bank decided Ms Baker was fair game?
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Curvyambyr on 08 September 2019, 06:54:20 pm
.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: CelesteManchester on 08 September 2019, 07:02:51 pm
Salty, I just don't recall at this point, but I sure didn't realize it was that much, holy shit.

Nadiya, I'm sorry, I just don't know *apologetic look*.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: saltysweet on 08 September 2019, 07:12:11 pm
Hi Red, my post mentions Australia and USA, I can't say if it has relevance to UK. Haven't heard anything similar here. Just throwing out there to share experiences and feedback especially with members who live there. :)

Both are 'out', Bianca Baker's in USA and the other SW, Charlie Ford is in Australia and is a legal adult performer. I don't know enough about the cases really. As I said we probably don't know the full story.

I read a bit.... and UK banks close accounts for reasons non-adult related reasons to all the time. It's not something strange or unusual. Most often linked to big money movements and links with countries deemed risky. Not particularly ho hunting at all

This is a bit out of date but says 'A 2016 report commissioned by the UK Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) revealed that, between them, two large (unnamed) UK banks were closing about 1,000 personal and 600 business/corporate accounts per month for “risk appetite-type reasons”'

Celeste yes it's a heap isn't it! I checked out Ms Baker's twitter.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: saltysweet on 12 September 2019, 01:43:42 am
More news-National Australian Bank (NAB) has stopped providing banking services to brothels and escort agencies. Different territories have different laws regarding legality of sex work and brothels. eg Licensed brothels are allowed in Queensland and New South Wales but illegal in Australian Capital Territory and Western Australia.

So you could be a legal brothel and find your bank account closed by NAB.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: CelesteManchester on 12 September 2019, 01:54:13 am
Gak!!😮😮
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: LotusFlower on 12 September 2019, 10:02:06 pm
So there's a chance our accounts could be frozen even if we declare our income?

No, you very much should declare your income. Escorting is legal in the UK, and therefore the income gained from it is legal. Certain banks may have terms in their account use which states they do not want their accounts used for sex work income, whichbis doubtful as that is very specific and prejudice. Our money is no less legal than any ither cash based business, like taxi drivers or hairdressers. We are not in breach of money laundering, as our income is made legally. If you don't declare your income to HMRC, then you are guilty of tax fraud but I don't see this being the responsibility of the banks to monitor this in anyway.

It's unnerving to think a bank would close and account like this with no warning but I don't see this being a common occurance unless you are adding insane amounts of money, like 50k a week with no solid explanation of where it came from. And less face it, even escorting doesn't rack in that much money.
Title: Re: Australian bank close account or is it slow news day?
Post by: Porcelain on 05 November 2019, 03:23:03 pm
This happened to a girl over here, I read about it on Switter a few months back *thinking*...it was a debit card. They closed her account & she lost all her $$ too bc of "suspicious activity". The girls on there were raising funds for her bc she very unfortunately had all her eggs in that 1 basket *wince* & lost everything. I think I tossed $50 in the pot.

I've honestly lost count how many debit cards I have at this point, but I'm razor sharp about knowing what goes on what card, personally/professionally. I also use completely different brand cards by different companies ~ AmEx/Visa/whatever/ ~ for the personal & pro stuff. I was always careful, but have stepped up my game bc of this.

This is very good advice.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Lady Frog on 11 November 2019, 03:06:41 am
then you are guilty of tax fraud but I don't see this being the responsibility of the banks to monitor this in anyway.

Absolutely agree with your advice

Banks have a lot of responsibility to monitor money laundering activities etc though, so if you are depositing a lot of cash into your account there is every chance they will flag you up and possibly report you. I have been advised £500 a day is the maximum amount you should be depositing. If they report you and you are not registered self employed and paying tax, you could be investigated for tax fraud off the back of attracting attention from your bank.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Mirror on 11 November 2019, 10:11:34 am
Absolutely agree with your advice

Banks have a lot of responsibility to monitor money laundering activities etc though, so if you are depositing a lot of cash into your account there is every chance they will flag you up and possibly report you. I have been advised £500 a day is the maximum amount you should be depositing. If they report you and you are not registered self employed and paying tax, you could be investigated for tax fraud off the back of attracting attention from your bank.

Who advised this amount?

So when I paid my well-over-£500 overnight fee into the bank..............?

Much of the time I deposit anywhere from £100 to £500 on the basis of getting all cash off my person safely into a bank asap, whatever I'm paying in will be split into each booking amount for ease of my records. As far as I'm aware it's out of the ordinary activity which is likely to attract suspicion and/or several thousand at once.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Lady Frog on 11 November 2019, 10:29:21 am
As far as I'm aware it's out of the ordinary activity which is likely to attract suspicion and/or several thousand at once.

That is very much my point. Each bank will have different procedures/algorithms etc that will help them identify suspicious activity - obviously it is not a human eye that pores over your bank statements. An entrepreneur friend of mine has told me that one of that key flags at the bank I use is regular cash deposits of over £500 a day. Quite obviously that is not all there is to it.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: amy on 11 November 2019, 11:14:22 am
An entrepreneur friend of mine has told me that one of that key flags at the bank I use is regular cash deposits of over £500 a day. Quite obviously that is not all there is to it.

Well, quite. Your 'entrepreneur' friend appears to have somehow entered the adult world without knowing about pubs, bookies, fish and chip shops and God knows how many other places that regularly deposit cash sums like this. As Mirror said, it's unusual activity that draws attention, not regular banking patterns [source: my accountant].

Obviously if you're claiming to be a dog walker or balloon seller and dropping 10K cash a week in your account, you're going to have problems.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Lady Frog on 11 November 2019, 12:40:32 pm
My friend doesn't run businesses that have anything to do with the adult industry as it goes
Of course escorting is not the only way to be self-employed or run a business that mostly involves taking cash, there are many others. But escorts are more likely than chip shops to use personal accounts rather than business accounts, and also to feel forced to lie to their bank in some way about the exact nature of their job, all these things do make you more likely to attract attention

The point is, banks certainly are interested in tax fraud, whichever methods they use to detect it
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: Mirror on 11 November 2019, 01:26:29 pm
Whether I lie or not the bank can clearly see payments to HMRC.

As it is at the first private financial advice appointment I was offered, I asked would they like to update the nature of my business, nope they didn't have a category so left it as it was.

I was lucky enough to be asked about my deposits quite early on in branch, I explained I'm paid in cash the reason they asked was because I'd been flagged up for a mortgage their systems seemed to think I might be saving up for a deposit.

 ???

I don't know what other traders do I do hear moans about business banking, and as mentioned here and elsewhere business accounts aren't necessarily required to receive cash from self employment. Perhaps if other trades find out they may do the same?
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: ana30 on 11 November 2019, 02:01:36 pm
I've never heard of anything like this happening in Europe, however I have heard (first hand) of this problem happening in the US. I remember a a few indie escorts whose account got frozen and the chase manhattan bank telling her to go "elselwhere" after they paid for their eros/slixa ads with their debit cards. Do not forget visa and mastercard are US based and a few years ago they started clamping down on the sex industry hard. On the other hand chase manhattan bank is known for having a zero tolerance with the sex industry, however... there's other banks who keep a more open mind like bank of America.
Title: Re: Bank account closed or is it slow news day?
Post by: DaisyDuck on 11 November 2019, 04:07:58 pm
Business accounts are worthwhile, imo.

They may not be required, but a bank may decide that you're not worth the hassle of the free current account. Depositing cash puts a strain on their manpower. The free accounts are only offered in order to someday sell you a loan or something. They don't have to give you one.