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Author Topic: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...  (Read 4158 times)

TrannyForHire

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"England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« on: 08 February 2012, 04:52:59 pm »
When I made the decision to look into escort work, a few Google searches led me to a 2005 article in Wired magazine where Adult Work was described as "England's eBay For Sex".

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2005/03/66800?currentPage=all

As sensational bollocks headlines go that's a pretty good one.  ;D

I ended up joining AW and seeing a few clients even though AW is nothing remotely like an eBay for sex.

So why doesn't someone create a website that really is a kind of eBay for escorts?

Why not have an escort's available bookings advertised with little "Buy It Now" buttons?

Prospective clients would have to put their money where there mouth is. If they can't keep an appointment, that's too bad  ;D

However, if an escort needed to cancel, they could simply refund the client in the same way that eBay sellers sometimes do.

Just a thought... 8)

xw5

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #1 on: 08 February 2012, 05:01:49 pm »
It is like it in that there's nothing particularly clever about either site and what makes them dominant is the number of users...

The number of people willing to pay up front to someone who could just run off with the money (you cannot enforce a sex-based contract) is minimal.

The number of payment providers who will touch prostitution-related money is even smaller.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

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EbonyCharm

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #2 on: 08 February 2012, 06:04:50 pm »
I agree with xw5 .....Plus the way we accept transactions from clients is fine as it is. It pretty much is an ebay ..EG: clients see the products and they arrange to buy it for an hour or more ... and also you can use your gallery on AW if you want payment in advance or deposits etc

There are only a percentage of genuine WG's and Guys otherwise escorts will run off with clients money.

TrannyForHire

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #3 on: 08 February 2012, 06:16:40 pm »
It is like it in that there's nothing particularly clever about either site and what makes them dominant is the number of users...

The number of people willing to pay up front to someone who could just run off with the money (you cannot enforce a sex-based contract) is minimal.

The number of payment providers who will touch prostitution-related money is even smaller.

Apparently, the same business model works fine for conventional dates.

http://www.whatsyourprice.com/

For every potential problem, I would imagine there is a work-around.

After all, in legalese, escorts don't sell sex. They sell companionship.

xw5

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #4 on: 08 February 2012, 06:25:26 pm »
If escorts did not have sex with clients, they would starve.

That site is US based where they have to pretend that it is absolutely nothing to do with prostitution, oh no, really truly.
'The Ian formerly known as SW5'. What they said: "Indispensable", "You are our best resource", and (hours later!) "I'm afraid that you're being made redundant..."

Winding down YourEscortSite.com

EbonyCharm

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #5 on: 08 February 2012, 06:28:43 pm »
I think if your  profile looks right you will get your clients - no prob ...

EmilyJones

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #6 on: 08 February 2012, 06:32:36 pm »
After all, in legalese, escorts don't sell sex. They sell companionship.

As xw5 mentions - I don't think that 'disclaimer' actually works in any courts anywhere in the world, just in case anyone reading this thread thinks they'll be safe working in the US (or even more conservative countries!) just by putting a little note on their site. :)
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TrannyForHire

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #7 on: 08 February 2012, 06:43:42 pm »
If escorts did not have sex with clients, they would starve.

That site is US based where they have to pretend that it is absolutely nothing to do with prostitution, oh no, really truly.

Yes, the US and UK legal systems are quite different. Prostitution isn't illegal per se over here. Just lots of things that people associate with it!

But even Adult Work has to add the disclaimer that escorts are not selling sex.

As for escorts starving if they don't have sex with their clients, they are obviously unlikely to get repeat business or testimonials that way  ;D

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think the Americans are onto something there.

Although, in fairness the "generous people" on whatsyourprice don't have to pay on-line as they do with eBay. It sounds like a conventional escort transaction from what I read on the site.

amy

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #8 on: 08 February 2012, 06:59:57 pm »
If escorts did not have sex with clients, they would starve.

That site is US based where they have to pretend that it is absolutely nothing to do with prostitution, oh no, really truly.

Yes, the US and UK legal systems are quite different. Prostitution isn't illegal per se over here. Just lots of things that people associate with it!

But even Adult Work has to add the disclaimer that escorts are not selling sex.

As for escorts starving if they don't have sex with their clients, they are obviously unlikely to get repeat business or testimonials that way  ;D

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think the Americans are onto something there.

Although, in fairness the "generous people" on whatsyourprice don't have to pay on-line as they do with eBay. It sounds like a conventional escort transaction from what I read on the site.

Adultwork don't have to add any such thing - they'll just be faintly nervous potential law changes which could get them stitched up (as has happened in Ireland, where advertising sexual services for sale is now outlawed). The disclaimers (including the ones on most agency sites, where the owners are breaking the law) are completely pointless and superfluous on independent sites and directories (where no control is being exercised), and in the event of an agency/brothel owner ending up in court they're even more useless than that.

I sell sex, but I sell it in terms of what people can fit in within a specified amount of time, otherwise it would be impossible to organise a diary - if I said 'it's thirty for a blowjob and fifty for sex' (and I do in terms of extras like anal), or whatever, that would still be perfectly legal, but nobody would be able to work that way when punters are so different - full sex might last ten seconds with one and forty minutes with the next which is why selling 'time' is much more practical.

Prostitution is prostitution no matter where you are. The Americans just have to be ridiculously cagey about it, but the nuts and bolts of it are no different to here.
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TrannyForHire

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #9 on: 08 February 2012, 07:22:54 pm »
If escorts did not have sex with clients, they would starve.

That site is US based where they have to pretend that it is absolutely nothing to do with prostitution, oh no, really truly.

Yes, the US and UK legal systems are quite different. Prostitution isn't illegal per se over here. Just lots of things that people associate with it!

But even Adult Work has to add the disclaimer that escorts are not selling sex.

As for escorts starving if they don't have sex with their clients, they are obviously unlikely to get repeat business or testimonials that way  ;D

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think the Americans are onto something there.

Although, in fairness the "generous people" on whatsyourprice don't have to pay on-line as they do with eBay. It sounds like a conventional escort transaction from what I read on the site.

Adultwork don't have to add any such thing - they'll just be faintly nervous potential law changes which could get them stitched up (as has happened in Ireland, where advertising sexual services for sale is now outlawed). The disclaimers (including the ones on most agency sites, where the owners are breaking the law) are completely pointless and superfluous on independent sites and directories (where no control is being exercised), and in the event of an agency/brothel owner ending up in court they're even more useless than that.

I sell sex, but I sell it in terms of what people can fit in within a specified amount of time, otherwise it would be impossible to organise a diary - if I said 'it's thirty for a blowjob and fifty for sex' (and I do in terms of extras like anal), or whatever, that would still be perfectly legal, but nobody would be able to work that way when punters are so different - full sex might last ten seconds with one and forty minutes with the next which is why selling 'time' is much more practical.

Prostitution is prostitution no matter where you are. The Americans just have to be ridiculously cagey about it, but the nuts and bolts of it are no different to here.

I recall watching a TV documentary a while ago about a gay couple running an escort agency in the north of England.

They were investigated by the police - and eventually cleared - for "living off immoral earnings", which is illegal in the UK. The tabloid press also tried to portray them as a couple of pimps getting off on a technicality.

The companionship disclaimer was repeated by the couple over and over again in the program.

I agree that Adult Work are covering their arses *just in case* the shit hits the fan.

Of course, it is perfectly legal in UK for someone to explicitly charge ?x for a particular sexual service provided they don't live with other people in the same line of work (brothel) or solicit in the street.

EmilyJones

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #10 on: 08 February 2012, 07:36:41 pm »
Although, in fairness the "generous people" on whatsyourprice don't have to pay on-line as they do with eBay. It sounds like a conventional escort transaction from what I read on the site.

If a police department with enough time on their hands get the idea that money is being exchanged for sex via that site, they'll just list themselves on it and wait for someone to either ask for or give them money for sex and then arrest both that person and the site owners immediately. That'll be it and everyone will be pouty.

It seems to happen periodically with US directory/review sites - not that often because, like here, it can often depend on the political climate whether or not a whole police department will pour resources into arresting harmless consenting adults who want to pay/get paid for sex (if there as a whiff of underage prostitution or trafficking around a site then there's usually an immediate national focus on it, of course - isn't that what happened with Craiglist's Erotic Services section in the US?) ... it also depends on whether the site is hosted in the US and whether the site's owners are US residents. When American directories go down it can be extremely messy for all the members - especially if the owner starts telling the police who everyone else really is in order to reduce their own chances of jail time. Not so much industry solidarity at that point!

I believe AW's owners are based somewhere in Spain? But they operate mostly here, so although those guys basically spend all day long gaining from the control (or at least, encouragement!) of prostitution, it's unlikely that there'll be a quiet enough week crime-wise for the police to start faffing about with what, again, mostly involves consenting adults doing things in private anyway. The AW push for verification (trying to get all their members to send in scanned photographic ID) is most likely to do with protecting themselves against allegations of being involved in trafficking and/or child prostitution - those are the main things that any prostitution-related site (or, really, any adult site) needs to avoid like the plague if they don't want their hosting company to immediately take their site down while simultaneously giving the police all of the site owners' stored billing information.

At the end of the day, I think any member of any police force anywhere in the world knows - like most other sane adults do - that prostitution has always existed and probably always will (til they invent proper sex robots, I guess?! Hopefully I'll be long gone by the time that particular creepy event happens!) so making it and/or related stuff illegal not only makes it all the more dangerous for those involved but is also a colossal waste of police time and government money. At least ignoring things that aren't causing anyone any real bother helps cut down that waste. Putting a stop to child prostitution or trafficking (where it genuinely exists) is very important, of course, but hassling private consenting adults while making it easier for scammers and worse to find victims who will be less likely to report them is not so good.

I'd expect that anyone making an adult site these days, particularly if related to escorting, could probably expect a 60% chance of being shut down by anxious hosts or disapproving complainers (or angry rivals), a 6% chance of making a bunch of money and a 34% chance of being totally ignored. ;D
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amy

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Re: "England's eBay For Sex"? No, not quite...
« Reply #11 on: 08 February 2012, 08:08:04 pm »
I recall watching a TV documentary a while ago about a gay couple running an escort agency in the north of England.

They were investigated by the police - and eventually cleared - for "living off immoral earnings", which is illegal in the UK. The tabloid press also tried to portray them as a couple of pimps getting off on a technicality.

The companionship disclaimer was repeated by the couple over and over again in the program.

I agree that Adult Work are covering their arses *just in case* the shit hits the fan.

Of course, it is perfectly legal in UK for someone to explicitly charge ?x for a particular sexual service provided they don't live with other people in the same line of work (brothel) or solicit in the street.

'Living off immoral earnings' is not and has never been an offence in UK law; the offence pertaining to brothel and agency owners is 'controlling prostitution for gain'. The term 'immoral earnings' is a myth (there was an old offence of 'living off the earnings of a prostitute' which applied only to men (I can't remember what the female equivalent was) but it's been gone since the SOA 2003 anyway.

And it is perfectly legal to work in or visit a brothel, whether there are two of you or two hundred. Once again, the illegality comes when somebody else is making money out of controlling somebody else's prostitution activities irrespective or not they are working themselves, and this would include everything from providing premises (brothel) to taking bookings for them (control for gain).

The companionship disclaimer was, is and will remain total bollocks. The Sexual Offences Act 2003 CPS guidance information is here - if you're going to work in the industry, it's worth familiarising yourself with the basics rather than relying on the gutter press (although in this case they were right, it's wasn't worth wasting the money prosecuting people who weren't doing any real harm when no evidence of underage or illegal workers was found, but the introduction of POCA has since changed all that) and excitable TV programme makers.
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